New immigrant to Israel: F22 stealth fighter?

Yedioth Ahronoth,Israel ^ | 08.03.06, 18:40 | Aryeh Egozi

[Tallguy]

They don't need the F-22, they need the B-52

What the Israelis need is air tankers, real AWACS and a true bomber. The F22 is only a makeshift attack aircraft -- and an expensive one at that.

The US will pay a big portion of the any aircraft purchase from Israel's military aid fund. This kinda defeats the purpose, from the USAF perspective, of selling them overseas to get the cost per unit down.

Also, as another poster pointed out, the Israelis are still in the doghouse for technology transfers to the PRC.

[Tallguy]

You'd need to field a couple of squadrons at least. One squadron to train pilots & test weapons; one squadron for operational duty. F22's are not in the future for the IDF.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Wonder what the People's Liberation Army will call their new plane, after Israel sells the F-22 to China?...

The "Red Dragon" perhaps?

This is a really, really dumb idea.

[Tallguy]

We just put an RAF pilot through the F22 training program. It would take 3 to 6 months per class. The training would take place in the US while the planes are being built & delivered. But as I said before, the F22 is an expensive interceptor with 'some' strike capability. The IAF will destroy opposing air forces on the ground, not in the air. They need bombers.

[rmlew]

Until Israel ceases all military sales to the PRC, I oppose this. Also, the F-22 is quite expensive.

[Ready4Freddy]

Many thanks, Tallguy! Is the ground crew training going on at the same time?

In any case, I didn't think it was something to get excited about - prolly wouldn't help in this war, anyway.

[raygun]

Why don't we just dump all our F-16 and F-15's onto friends and invest heavily into F-22 & F-35's? What can't the latter do that the former can?

[Jet Jaguar]

We have to get the 22's and 35's inplace first.

[Pharmboy]

I hope the IAF has some of these bad boys...

[TheRedSoxWinThePennant]

While I fully support Israel and wish they would bulldoze the whole region. I would think we would be carefull not to risk a f-22 being shot down in a conflict where Israel didnt need it. For you know where its wreckage would end up if it was. It would be in the same hanger somwhere in siberia right next to the f-117 shot down in Kosovo.

[TheRedSoxWinThePennant]

The A-10 would be perfect for the Israeli's.

[GAB-1955]

No, the F-16 is a single-engine, low-altitude fighter; the F-15 is dual-engine, high-altitude. The F-22 is like the F-15 in its role of air supremacy; the F-25 will fill in the gaps.

[Mustng959]

Thanks for the ping.
I'm a little wishy-washy on this one. First, I have no problem with Israel, or Britain, or even Australia, having access to the F-22. However, with Israeli sales to China on record, extreme caution and total commitment to technological security must be agreed upon prior to deployment or sales. I support Israel 100%. I'm like others here ... Israel doesn't really have a need for an Air superiority fighter at this time but does need low altitude attack planes (i.e. Warthog) and possible long range bombers. Just my opinion.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Umm,you'r logic seems ok.But the possibility is as likely in an American conflict.

[TheRedSoxWinThePennant]

I just think that with the hezbo's not having any air power why risk losing one with inexperienced Israeli pilots. If (when) the need comes to take out Iran maybe. I am a little skeptical on giving our most advanced fighter to another country.

Of course it wont matter once the NY times can get the specs they will be printed above the fold.

[Tallguy]

Why don't we just dump all our F-16 and F-15's onto friends and invest heavily into F-22 & F-35's? What can't the latter do that the former can?

First off, we've been buying F15's & F-16's in various models & blocks for around 20 years. It would be impossible to buy & produce enough replacement aircraft in the near term.

Second, the older aircraft have some important capabilities that the newer had to sacrifice. For instance the F-35 generally lacks the range of the F-16's. This is due to the smaller internal fuel load which in itself is driven by stealth. The F22 lacks the external hard points for fuel stores & weapons. Carrying an external payload makes the F-15 (particularly the 'E' model) an excellent bomber. The F22 has to carry everything internally to remain stealthy.

The newer aircraft complement the older aircraft, making the total force more effective. I don't think we'll ever field the numbers of aircraft that we have in past eras. The age of manned combat aircraft is rapidly closing.

[metrodtw]

I'ts funny to think we were going to scrap the A-10s years ago. In todays combat it is one of the best planes in the world.
The A-10 would be nice for Israel, but the best plane for urban combat, US or Isreal, is the C-130 Gunship. For Lebanon, that is the plane we should give to Israel.

[metrodtw]

Israel wouldn't dare selling the F-22 or any about it, to anyone.
1) Israel knows that whatever info gets in chinas hands, goes to Iran.
2) It would be the first time in a long time that Israel has a "weapon" that gives them a dominant weapon in that part of the world.
Saying that Israel has an advantage in tech. or anything else in the mid-east isn't true anymore. We've sold the same "weapons" to other arab states as Israel has received. Israel's nuclear arsenal is the only thing that gives them an advantage.

[metrodtw]

The f-117 that was shot down in Kosovo, was pure luck. It completely went against the, "open sky theory." The bigger thing is, when that plane hit the ground, it went straight into the russian and then chinese hands.
When the Chinese said, we know everything about america's stealth program, and can no pick up any "stealth" plane on new radars.

The purpose of letting Israel in on the F-22, is all about deterrence and the abilities of pilots, which Israel has some of the best. Also, Bush has seen that his only true ally (unwaivering) is Israel. The population of Israel isn't split doesn't deviate from the same Bush's policies that the rest of the word can't stand. It has become evident to Bush that Israel is the only country in the world that stands 100% in his corner, and understands terrorism and good vs. evil.
F-22s in Israel would not be used or wasted in Lebanon, it would be for a coordinated strike against Iran. Russia despite saying they're holding off are sending their most advanced antimissile system to Iran, are not being truthful.

My guess is that the F117s would be used to take out anti-aircraft batteries and air force bases along along with radar site and command and control. F22s would go after any aircraft getting off the ground, protect other aircraft, and do a little of everything. Drones which are armed and use stealth and height to for prtectction would be all over Iran. Then B2s would come in waves and try to destroy iran's nuclear installations. If the US/Israel and maybe brits are able accomplish air superiority, B-52s and all other types of aircarft would come in and help clean things up. Proceeding this, both american and Israeli forward operatos would be in country picking out sites.

I doubt Israel or Israeli pilots take off from Israel to avoid refueling. I'd guess anywhere from the gulf states, Iraq, to saudi arabia (who's not too fond of Iran).

JMO

[Tax Government]

Israel doesn't need the F-22. If we give the F-22 to a couple of friendly countries, the Chinese will have the technology in 5 years.

That's absolutely right.