Posted on 08/01/2006 7:06:01 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
Nobody is going to call a slave trader a good guy. We put people in jail for hurting cats and dogs.
If an illegal rapes my wife or child., the courts will be looking at me. I hope I get the same kind of jury that the mcD's woman got in her spilled coffee reward.
All of your scenarios are giving rights to the illegal, while apparently taking the recourse away from the victims.
Keep testing those premises, though. Maybe one will work!
... though I must admit, your idea does have quite an appeal as well. ;)
Wow. This site is host to some disgusting, ugly views. Do you go to church on Sundays and pretend that you are a good, charitable person?
Bush, the Senate, and Evil Big Business responsible because one illegal is electrocuted while doing a job for a small painting company? That could have come right off DU.
It's not the big businesses, by and large, that hire illegals, so why are they the ones responsible, instead of the business that actually hired this guy?
Dear pageonetoo,
I'm not looking for a fight at all.
In fact, Lazamataz has replied that he's fine with refusing to offer the protection of the law to illegal immigrants who are shot, raped, or enslaved.
I just wanted to see how far Lazamataz took his principle.
He takes it to its logical conclusion, and doesn't flinch from fidelity to it. His is a very consistent approach.
sitetest
Dear Xenalyte,
"In that situation, had they not broken the law they undoubtedly would NOT have been raped or shot. Staying home would have prevented that crime."
Could be. Or they may have taken the risks they took to come illegally to this country because home was even worse. I don't know any individual's circumstances.
However, that really isn't the question. The question is, would you deny the protection of the law to illegal immigrants by refusing to prosecute those who committed grave crimes against them?
That's what Lazamataz posited. Here's what he said:
"If you are an illegal, you may not afford yourself of any public service offered by the government of the United States.
"The courts are one, but I would also include hospitals and police."
To his credit, he's stuck by the principle when I've asked him about different possible circumstances where that might apply.
sitetest
I understand your point of view.
[/end humor]
I can send clients to the caribbean or South America for as little as a grand apiece on a cruise ship. If you took out the amenities (TV's, nice linens, etc. store them in a warehouse for a few months, and give the cabin stewards a bonus for having to put up with the crap (literally, I am sure). and placed 6-8 to a room, added life rafts to meet regs, and cooked beans and rice along the way, we can cut that to about $500 per, or less. Give the balcony cabins and suites to those that volunteer to go home. Drop them offalaong the way in their home country, with an application to return.
But, they must first pass an english comprehension test, and have a job guaranteed, a place to live (not crowded ten to a room), and absolutely NO PATH TO citizenship, nor any right to our social services.
The law says that a sponsor is "responsible" for their charges. That should include medical care, etc. If the kids want to go to American schools, they should be allowed, but they do not get any services, and they must pay!
Does anybody know any immigration judges? I'll start talking to cruise lines today.
Oh yeah, take those damn anchor babies back with you. They can come back when they grow up, and get in line. maybe we can give them a couple of spaces closer to the front.
Dear detsaoT,
I think your position is understandable to me.
It appears to offer more protection of the law to illegal immigrants than Lazamataz's view, in that you would at least prosecute those who committed serious crimes against illegal immigrants as part of the process of deporting them after the trial (and all appeals, perhaps?) is concluded.
sitetest
Most of us are good, charitable people who are utterly disgusted at the government's lack of ability to control our borders, and disturbed that illegal immigrants are typically able to get away with crimes scot-free. Would you rather us hand the Treasury over to people who just arrived? Or do LAWFUL CITIZENS not have any say in THEIR government any longer??
It's an approach that is consistently stupid and which would cause untold misery for the rest of us. Imagine that his view that emergency services are to be denied to illegal immigrants. Do you remember when you applied for a job and you had to show various forms of identification to meet the employer's burden? Now imagine that you've been in a terrible automobile accident, and your life is slipping away. The police and ambulance crew stands by, waiting for you to produce your Social Security Card and driver's license before hooking up the heart machine to you. Unfortunately, you left the SSN card at home, so you die. But, Lazamataz is happy because he's stickin' it to the illegals. Boy genius here.
Honestly, it was an accident, your honor!
Wet, dense wood, definitely. Light, dry wood is a good insulator.
Right—the significance of my position is that the victim of the crime would not be party to the criminal proceedings, but would rather be a witness to the crime. (This does lead to a quandry, though—How can one be sure that someone who lied to enter the country, would tell the truth on the stand? And how do you prevent a witness of this nature from changing their story under threat or other duress?)
Laz's solution may just be a bit easier, but I'm not sure I'd sign on 100% without trying my way first. ;)
Regards,
~dt~
If you're disgusted at the government's inaction, take it out on the government. That's what elections are for. If, as a democratic principle, a majority want the borders closed, it'll happen. If not, then admit that you are on the losing side of the vote. Of course, you can keep trying to win a majority for that view. But, don't declare open season on other human beings. Jesus didn't do that with the prostitute. And, the Samaritan didn't ask for a green card first.
My sensible interpretation, which of course will be different from what the government's is, is with the clear wording with "citizenship."
Of course a resident alien should have full rights short of voting, so saying one doesn't have to be a citizen makes sense. I don't think it should at all apply to illegals.
I'm starting to think we need to bring back the notion of a Debtor's Prison...
I'm starting to think we need to bring back the notion of a Debtor's Prison...
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