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Republican answer for alternative energy and cheap gasoline
Brookes News ^ | May 8, 2006 | Jack Wheeler

Posted on 07/30/2006 10:04:42 PM PDT by GeronL

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To: Smokin' Joe
I can see where whole neighborhoods will have to re-light their pilot lights as they all try to top off the car at once, dropping the line pressure in their area.

Not at normal regulated (1/2 psig) city gas pressures.

21 posted on 07/31/2006 1:00:47 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck
You have me there, I just find it, I don't distribute it.

But will they be able to run these theoretical compressors with 1/2 psig upstream pressure? ...and fill up vehicles all over the neighborhood overnight? And how much electricity will that use? (And how much Nautural Gas will be required to generate it?)

Enquiring minds wanna know!

22 posted on 07/31/2006 1:10:51 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: GeronL

Wow, this article is an eye-opener. I'm sold. I didn't realize we had a huge supply of NG.


23 posted on 07/31/2006 1:13:00 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (404 Page Error Found)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

everything has drawbacks, NG has fewer in my opinion than ethonal, methanol, solar, wind and treadmill power schemes


24 posted on 07/31/2006 1:17:46 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

I used to drive a Propane powered Jeep Wagoneer.

It drove OK, but was noticeably down on power compared to a gas engine.

If you ran out gas you had to call a tow-truck, you cannot get a ride to the station and fill a bucket or can with Propane, then pour it into the tank.

For purposes of this discussion I see Propane and Natural Gas as being essentially identical.

I can support the premise of the post, but only with the caveat that NG will work best for Gov. and large companies needs.
It's BEST use is electricity generation, which could transform our economy if it got cheap enough.
It really does have some drawbacks for individual use.


25 posted on 07/31/2006 1:21:01 AM PDT by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Richard-SIA
so does everything.

It would obviously start with larger companies and government but there would be a period of years for the system and infrastructure to be put into place.

26 posted on 07/31/2006 1:23:32 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: Richard-SIA

BTW- ethanol also cuts down on the power


27 posted on 07/31/2006 1:24:12 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

good post. well i for one see the answer in not giving way to any one solution. we should have everything, natural gas, nuclear, bio diesel, bio fuels, gasoline, wind, hydrogen..by a mix an match approach we get the best approach. i dont necessarily believe the oil companies, car companies are bad, we need their skills in changing. integration is the key IMHO.

this is all doable now, we just need someone to speartip it into the right direction. i also think it is a huge tool on the WOT. we keep our prices low and use the oil money we do buy as a tool for change. if we were only importing small percentages of oil (still huge money per annum) and indeed get other democracies to do the same, we could start to dicate to them what we need in place to buy oil, namely democracy. so instead of the islamic , dictator strangelholds, we could enforce change with the best tool of all...money.

i dont think it would take decades either. once we have a direction, it would be easier for the car companies to commit to this direction without shafting themselves. they win, we win..incentives by the government and more importantly some direction (which has started but i think it need more drive and purpose) will help no end also.


28 posted on 07/31/2006 1:28:37 AM PDT by Irishguy (How do ya LIKE THOSE APPLES!!!!)
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To: GeronL

Welllll, actually, you can get equal or better power from Ethanol IF the engine is specially built just to run on it.
Watch a blown Alky rail dragster some time!
But the mileage will never equal what you can get from gasoline.

There are catalyst that can concentrate the HC in Ethanol to the same density as oil derived gasoline.
Of course that is not being pursued, it cuts the yield too much, and does not supplant gasoline as the fuel of choice.


29 posted on 07/31/2006 1:32:04 AM PDT by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: GeronL
Japan buys a lot of our Alaska oil, for example

100% of Alaskan North Slope oil is kept in America. This has been the case for all but 4 years of the nearly 3 decades of Alaskan oil production. Between 1996-1999 5.5% of North Slope oil was exported to Asian countries. These exports were overwhelmingly supported by the US Congress and by the Clinton Administration to offset an oil glut in California at the time. In June 2000 Alaskan North Slope oil again ceased to be exported, and 100% of Alaskan North Slope production has stayed in America. (Thanks Thackney)

30 posted on 07/31/2006 1:55:35 AM PDT by Species8472
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To: GeronL
It would seem that the original post and a lot of the following posts exhibit that we collectively do not really have access to good unbiased scientific data relating to the energy industry.
Basically the DOE has been a waste of money so far. I also believe that a lot of the data against alternatives such as ethanol has been paid for by the oil industry and has to be taken for the BS propaganda that it is.
Brazil has greatly reduced their use of foreign oil by using domestically produced ethanol without the US government subsidizing it. (this would not be possible if as the oil industry claimed ethanol had a negative energy balance.)
I don't want to sound like a greenie but Natural Gas is not as far as I know a renewable resource. Even if it is a better resource than crude oil we're still building our future on something that would eventually be used up and our descendants will then be making the transition to sustainable energy sources that we should have. If we're going to use something up let's use up our nuclear fuels that are abundant in our country. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've been told that the latest generation of nuclear power plants are not capable of producing a Chernobyl type accident and produce safe and cheap energy. If buried nuclear waste is a problem for eco-nuts, just think of what a terrible problem we have right now with all that even more dangerous unspent nuclear fuel all over the place. It is high time we dug it up and get it quarantined in one of these safe next generation nuclear reactors.

BTW it is amazing how much heat a $99 wood stove puts out. I used to almost heat my house on junk-mail and cardboard alone. One frigid day I cut up some oak pallets and stacked the wood log cabin style in the stove. The stove got so hot it got up to 125F in my living room before I knew it. The stove pipe was glowing white hot for the first three or four feet above the stove. I could barely get close enough to the stove to get the door open to spray some water in and cool things down. The radiant heat was burning my skin. Wood stoves are fun and dangerous for us pyros. I do believe you can burn coal in them too. Just don't burn the envelopes with the plastic windows in them. (very stinky!)
31 posted on 07/31/2006 2:38:52 AM PDT by ME-262 (The Democrat party is slowly being reduced by abortion AIDS and imprisonment...and soon deportation!)
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To: GeronL

What is NORM?

NORM, or naturally occurring radioactive material, is found almost everywhere. It is found in the air and in soil, and even in radioactive potassium in our own bodies. ...

...
NORM encountered in oil and gas exploration, development and production operations originates in subsurface formations, which may contain radioactive materials such as uranium and thorium and their daughter products, radium 226 and radium 228. NORM can be brought to the surface in the formation water that is produced in conjunction with oil and gas. NORM in these produced waters typically consists of the radionuclides, radium 226 and 228. In addition, radon gas, a radium daughter, may be found in produced natural gas.


32 posted on 07/31/2006 2:53:31 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: GeronL

Interesting. Thanks for posting.


33 posted on 07/31/2006 4:15:16 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: GeronL
UPS has been using natural gas and fuel cells
34 posted on 07/31/2006 4:48:19 AM PDT by alrea
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To: GeronL
"What really nixes hydrogen is a feature called “embrittlement.” Hydrogen atoms ooze their way into grains of steel and make it as brittle as glass. So you need special high-nickel steel pressure tanks and pipelines. You can’t transport hydrogen in existing NG pipelines — you’d have to build an impossibly costly additional pipeline system, or lug it in special trucks and railroad tank cars like ethanol."

This shows up in one out of two mentions of the hydrogen economy, and it just IS NOT TRUE. "Embrittlement" by hydrogen diffusion only happens at a high enough rate to be a problem at high temperatures. At room temperature (or less, since pipelines are typically underground), the reaction is so slow as to take centuries to cause a problem.

There is a mild steel pipeline in the Ruhr Valley that has been transporting hydrogen for a century now without problems. The ONLY change that will need to be made to NG pipelines to transport hydrogen is to put in bigger pumps.

35 posted on 07/31/2006 5:01:51 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: GeronL
"This is why I can heat my home by turning on the oven without it killing me and stay that way for days on end." Isn't this dangerous?
36 posted on 07/31/2006 5:06:05 AM PDT by Eagles Talon IV
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To: GeronL

I'd certainly love to see NG prices come down. Each year it's been skyrocketing during the winter, and I've seen my home heating bills go way up.

Also, one of the reason that electical bills are going up is that many power companies built supplemental NG fueled power plants when NG was cheap and plentiful, but now those plants are extremely expensive to run.

Mark


37 posted on 07/31/2006 5:06:16 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: 308MBR
"Hydrogen takes more energy to produce than it can supply from its combustion."

True. That's why you use fuel cells instead.

"The same applies to ethanol."

Not true. Your information is out of date.

"Methanol is OK if you work on your car three hours for every half hour in operation."

Not true. WHERE do you come up with this stuff???

38 posted on 07/31/2006 5:06:29 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: FairOpinion
If France can get 80% of their energy needs filled using nuclear energy, why can't we?!

Given the fact that the last "war" France won was against Greenpeace, they're no longer held hostage to the environmentalist whackos.

Mark

39 posted on 07/31/2006 5:09:21 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: Eagles Talon IV
" Isn't this dangerous? "

It can be. For about $40, you can get a CO alarm that tells you how many parts per million of CO is in your house's air, and alarms when it approaches dangerous levels. For about $30, you can get one that alarms without telling you how much CO there is. I use the oven for heat now and again, among other reasons because I can power the stove with a small inverter during power outages. The same inverter will also run the CO alarm.
40 posted on 07/31/2006 5:56:43 AM PDT by Old Student (WRM, MSgt, USAF(Ret.))
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