House slates vote on raising minimum wage (bowing to moderates, seeking to defuse campaign issue)

I'll admit to not being a history expert, but my assumption would be that 100 years ago, what was taking place was an improvement over 100 earlier? Hmmm...150 years ago men owed other men for their profit (no face to face negotiations then) 100 years ago the industrial revolution, some would argue the conditions of workers were much worse than that of the slaves, save the freedom to walk away and starve with your family.

Our society is steadily increasing in education, (some would doubt this ;))productivity, and the ability to move from one class to the next. The idea that removing a wage law would suddenly reduce all but the upper echelon the chattel seems simplistic and shows little respect for the adaptability of educated people in large numbers.

Here you are liberal and I the conservative. The nature of man is what it is, education will not make men good nor will it inspire them to do good to others. We are what we are either in century or any other. Think of the well educated Germans daily watching Jews being worked to death down the block.

It sounds as if you feel that only the greedy and the cutthroat are capable of being an employer. Every scenario you have presented supposes that the man offering employment is bad, and the man seeking a job is good

Well then I have done a poor job of explaining myself, they are the same in my view, good and evil mixed.

The presence of good men in the business world produces its own type of market force. Your wage offer will put you in competition with other businesses who seek high quality workers.

I know good men and women in business, who do indeed take seriously their responsibility to others. But it is law/government we need to insure all will do what is morally right. Many business men reward themselves well for their hard work and risk taking, but they also see that their employees have a living wage. There were many men who would not own slaves, the great John Adams comes first to mind, but it took, well you know all that it took, to keep all men from owning slaves.

Let this be the end of it as we have been round the ship in full.

Nobody had to work. Or more exactly, nobody was required to take a job with any company.

But if there were a lot more workers available than jobs, and those workers were willing to work for slave wages, then of course we want government to protect them from their own stupidity, right? "No, you can't possibly really WANT to work for $5.15 an hour, even if you are happily doing so now, so we'll make sure you get more money than you are worth."

wage laws - because that is where the floor is set and thus jobs worth more than the floor pay more than the floor..

Are you seriously claiming that if the minimum wage were abolished, jobs currently paying $30,000 a year would pay less?

Now your turn...Why do the Nike workers in china only get $.13 per day....?

Because they have low productivity, and they prefer .13 a day to subsistence farming or living on the streets.

they get $.13 because that is what their over lords negotiated for them....the workers have no say in the matter...slave labor...no rights ... used by people with no conscience

And yes if suddenly there were no wage/labor laws it would not be long before you and I were making much much less....the men who pay the Chinese $.13 would just as easily pay you the same...or do you think they are just some sort of racist....who only pay slave wages to yellow people ...

That was 100 years ago. This is now. There are perfectly good laws now in existence, and rigidly enforced, which prohibit employers from exposing workers to unreasonably dangerous conditions, forcing them to work unreasonable hours, threatening or intimidating workers and engaging in numerous other unethical or exploitative business practices.

My experience in the workforce has been that most employers treat their employees with respect and fairness. I've also worked for a few ogres whom I've left in the lurch as soon as I'd realised how obnoxious they were. Companies are only as good as the people who run them and I see most people as good and decent, with a few jerks ruining the reputation of the others.

In rereading this entire thread, one thing stands out to me. There seems to be the expectation by many, that simply because there exist people who currently work hard every week just to live paycheck to paycheck, and who must live frugally, then it MUST be the responsibility of the government to pass some kind of law to remedy the situation. It doesn't matter what the law is, it doesn't matter if the law hurts ten times as many people as it helps, it doesn't even matter if the law is nonsensical on the face of it. The only thing that matters is that the government passes SOME kind of law.

The federally mandated, arbitrary minimum wage is the best example I can think of of this kind of nonsense law. All it does is artificially increase the supply of money in the economy without increasing the value of goods and services contained therein. It's the same thing as the government printing more money and handing it out to people on street corners, and the inevitable result is the price of goods and services quickly rises to overtake all of this new "wealth". Ultimately nobody benefits, but there are plenty of losers such as retirees, or those nearing retirement, who can only watch as their savings get decimated by excessive inflation, caused by "compassionate" people who just wanted the government to DO SOMETHING!

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