Hizballah Brings out Iranian Silkworm to Hit Israel Navy Corvette

DEBKA file ^ | July 15, 2006, 1:37 PM (GMT+02:00) | DEBKAfile Exclusive Military Analysis

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

I think this article is BS. No way they could hide that thing in Lebanon. Debka is on crack. The drone story is infinitely more plausable since we know they have them.

[Strategerist]

Actually reviewing the article, the problem is DUMBKA is too stupid to know that the C-802 missle has nothing to do with a Silkworm...they claim it's in the "Silkworm" family when that is totally false. The C-802 is an Exocet/Harpoon knockoff.

[Petronski]

We are very, very unprepared for the war that's coming.

You make excellent points. I would suggest that WWIII started in September 2001 (if not earlier), but that this would mark the opening of combat in a major new theater: Israel.

And no, the American public is NOT psychologically prepared.

[A. Pole]

Me too more or less. In Shiite/Iranian culture the secrecy or skilful deception - "Ketman" is a cherished tradition. I would not underestimate them.

[Strategerist]

DEBKA has been given a bad name by people misunderstanding what it is, and only remembering the times it was totally wrong. It is a RAW info and report site. The closer the story is to the ME, the more accurate it usually is.

The ONLY time DUMBKA reports accurate information is when they get it from a public news conference in Israel, or they steal it off the feed of a 24 hour cable news network or the BBC.

If you carefully look at the timing of reports, DUMBKA never actually BREAKS a story with accurate information, ever. People just stupidly see something on DUMBKA first because that's where they looked first and assume that DUMBKA broke the story.

While it's good to take any new story with a grain of salt, DEBKA is as good as some MSM news sites (I guess thats not saying much)I am willing to bet that many will eat crow on this story, and that silkworms were fired at the warship.

As noted, the worthless morons at DUMBKA incorrectly proclaimed the C-802 is in the "Silkworm" family possibly because that's the only ASM they've ever heard of. That's akin to proclaiming that the F-16 is in the "B-52 Stratofortress" family.

[Fury]

And no, the American public is NOT psychologically prepared.

Perhaps a by-product of the increased standard of living, and a general numbness to important world events due to the proliferation of 24-hour news services.

It's more than possible that if world events led to gas going to $4-5/gal, some folks would not be able to cope with this. Even more so with a series of coordinated attacks by terrorists on US soil. Some folks could work through such events - some could not.

[Jeff Head]

Agreed. A silk worm would have done much, much more damage and probably sunk the Corvette outright.

Having said that, I am still waiting to see pics of the stricken vessel.

[Paperpusher]

Israel official: Iran helping Hezbollah
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_attacked_ship;_ylt=AvJlyjISpFiFvr41Y3nX24tvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-


A missile fired by Hezbollah, not an unmanned drone laden with explosives, damaged an Israeli warship off Lebanon, the army said Saturday. Iranian troops helped fire the missile, a senior intelligence official said. ..........The intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information, said about 100 Iranian soldiers are in Lebanon and helped fire the Iranian-made, radar-guided C-102 at the ship late Friday. ..........the army's investigation showed that Hezbollah had fired an Iranian-made missile at the vessel from the shores of Lebanon, said Brig. Gen. Ido Nehushtan. ................"We can confirm that it was hit by an Iranian-made missile launched by Hezbollah.

[Dark Skies]

I dunno about the shock. It was my understanding that even shipboard (as opposed to land based) anti-missile countermeasures were iffy to a degree. I'd think the shock would be that Hezbollah's got a weapon that needs such extensive support and technological know-how.

After doing a little digging, I tend to agree with you. It seems the CIWS (and I'm not sure this ship had that system) has never actually prevented a missile strike in a military conflict.

[Strategerist]

After doing a little digging, I tend to agree with you. It seems the CIWS (and I'm not sure this ship had that system) has never actually prevented a missile strike in a military conflict.

The Phalanx (or any similar weapons) isn't nearly as effective as it's been made out to be.

[Paperpusher]

Brig.Gen.Ido Nehushtan seems to think it was a missile.

[Dark Skies]

Yep. That's what I've been learning.

[Chode]

years ago China was selling them to FRANCE, who was selling them to IRAN, who was popping them off at US flagged Kuaiti oil tankers in the RocketRun of the PersianGulf...

[Paperpusher]

Sorry was a SACCADE not SILKWORM.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/c-802.htm

C-802 / YJ-2 / Ying Ji-802 / CSS-C-8 / SACCADE / C-8xx / YJ-22

The Ying-Ji-802 land attack and anti-ship cruise missile [Western designation SACCADE], is an improved version of the C-801 which employs a small turbojet engine in place of the original solid rocket engine. The weight of the subsonic (0.9 Mach) Yingji-802 is reduced from 815 kilograms to 715 kilograms, but its range is increased from 42 kilometers to 120 kilometers. The 165 kg. (363 lb.) warhead is just as powerful as the earlier version. Since the missile has a small radar reflectivity and is only about five to seven meters above the sea surface when it attacks the target, and since its guidance equipment has strong anti-jamming capability, target ships have a very low success rate in intercepting the missile. The hit probability of the Yingji-802 is estimated to be as high as 98 percent. The Yingji-802 can be launched from airplanes, ships, submarines and land-based vehicles, and is considered along with the US "Harpoon" as among the best anti-ship missiles of the present-day world.
Following the 1991 Gulf War Iran imported the C-802 antiship cruise missile from China. China suspended exports in 1996 in response to comlaints by the the United States. In December 1996 Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, John Shalikashivili, warned Chinese Defense Minister General Chi Haotian that arms exports would increase destabilizing factors in the region. No international agreement bans transfers of anti-ship missiles, and the C-802 is not covered by the MTCR, which controls exports of ballistic and cruise missiles that can deliver 500 kg. warheads to 300 km. Iran expected to purchase 150 C-802 missiles from China but only received a half of them because of the arms suspension. By mid-1997 Iran reportedly possessed some 60 of the missiles deployed in coastal batteries on Qeshm Island, a strategic point on the eastern side of the Arabian peninsula. In 1997, General J.H. Binford Peay, Central Command commander, said that China transferred 20 patrol boats with 15 equipped with C-802 missiles (Washington Times, January 29, 1997). [Some reports claim that China may have transferred hundreds of C-802s, although these claims are not widely attested].

In early 2000 it was reported that North Korea and Iran were jointly developing an advanced version of the C-802 cruise missile. These missiles initially acquired by Iran were not equipped with advanced systems, and the missiles acquired by Iran were rather outdated. Iran turned to North Korea for missile system technology, and the two countries are jointly developing an upgraded version with improved accuracy. ["N. Korea, Iran Jointly Develop Missile: Report" Korea Times February 17, 2000]

[kabar]

A senior IDF officer said the ship was struck by an Iranian-made C802 missile, but he refused to say whether or not Iranian activists were behind the launching itself.

The army said two C802 missiles were fired at the vessel; the first missed the ship and struck an Egyptian boat some 60 kilometers (37 miles) off the Lebanon coast.

Missing sailor’s body recovered

[Jeff Head]

If a C-802 was fired (or two of them) than, IMHO, that points almost directly and surely to Iranian involvement and represents a huge escalation.

It also represents a huge coup for Hezbollah and Iran. The Saar 5 was designed and has the systems to defend precisely against this sort of attack. And yet, of two missiles fired, one got through and mission killed the vessel.

This engagement will be analyzed by both sides...one to prevent, and one to exploit and represents a serious threat to our own shipping in the GUlf from Iran. It is ytet to be seen how AEGIS will handle this threat, which is even more sophisticated than the IDF defense.

But, before yesterday, most would have laid odds that a single Sarr 5 could defeat several C-802s launched at it.

[Paperpusher]

If a C-802 was fired (or two of them) than, IMHO, that points almost directly and surely to Iranian involvement and represents a huge escalation.

Yep! This could get out of control very quickly.

[kabar]

But, before yesterday, most would have laid odds that a single Sarr 5 could defeat several C-802s launched at it.

It could just be a matter of human error in terms of the Israeli response. It must have taken them by surprise and they were not ready to respond with the Sarr 5 for that reason.

[Jeff Head]

If so, that is as surprising as the ability for the missile to hit the vessel. The IDF is very well trained and very professional. They know Iran has such capabilities and the vessel has been designed with just that in mind.

We shall just have to wait for more info. Either explanation is a huge story. My guess is that there are componenets of both...more capable missile, and some degree of feeling that the threat environment was light.