Baby found dead in vehicle. Mother apparently forgot to drop off baby at day care.

grandfolksherald.com ^ | Thu, Jun. 29, 2006 | Lisa Gibson

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

These cases should be treated as murder - at the very least: manslaughter. I don't care how stressed or forgetful a parent is. They should not be given a pass to kill their own children, from negligence or whatever.

[Alouette]

Do you have children? How many? Or do you have none?

If you have less than 9 kids, STFU before passing judgment on those of us who do.

If anyone is qualified to pass judgment, I am the one. I stayed at home until it was not longer possible to do so. My younger kids have not suffered because they spent some time in daycare.

Working to support as many kids as you want to have is not a crime.

Leaving a child to suffocate in a hot car is murder, that's a crime.

Learn to tell the difference.

[Maurice Tift]

This almost never happened before it was "decided" that having kids in the front seat, rear facing, was verboten.

  I was about to say the same thing. A child, out of sight, in the back seat - it's surprising that this doesn't happen more often. I think I'm still allowed to carry my cats to the vet in the front seat (in a carrying case) - but children must be in the back seat by law (I wonder how many states have this law - we have uniform laws in most states due to the federal government threatening to withdraw highway funds).

More unintended consequences of the nanny state. When personal risk is involved, decisions are best left to individuals.

[nopardons]

That's exactly who I was thinking of, when I wrote that.

GMTA

[Alouette]

I don't know why some (childless or "1 baby every 20 years") FReepers turn all these threads into a "bash working mothers" thread.

That is complete BS!!!

Been there, done that "stay-at-home" AND "working mom"

Jeez. Leaving a baby to suffocate in a hot car is a BAD PARENT and a CRIMINAL. Period.

[nopardons]

I don't know WHY they do it, but they do and the thread hijacking has really gotten way out of control, around here, lately. And it is destroying FR!

I was a stay at home mother. I worked before I got preggers. And I am here to say that I have NEVER, nor shall I, condemn mothers who have to work and condemn those who take it upon themselves to tell other people off, for no valid reason and with no personal experience of the topic, just because they are on a forum.

[WLR]

A two piece proximity alarm system is the best choice as it is independent of the vehicle system one on the child or what ever and one on you.

Just look up

Mobile Proximity Alarm.

It is lightweight (both the transmitter and the receiver together weigh about the same as four quarters) and compact making it the perfect device to protect you from theft or forgetfulness and to alert you when little ones wander off. Simply put the transmitter on the person or item to be protected and if it goes out of a 15 to 25 foot range of the receiver an alert sounds...

It is time we get back to the old ways. When a tragedy like this occurs if this women is not a druggie, a crimminal. If there is nothing in her life to suggest this was deliberate act. Then we should greatfully say.

"There but by the Grace of God Go I".

If only the Grand Juries were independent enough to tell the prosecutor to take a long walk down a short pier in cases like this.

What could anyone do to make you feel worse or "teach you" anything or "Be an Example to others" if either by your error or ommission your child dies? Nothing...


How this women will ever get out of bed again is beyond me.


W

[WLR]

A two piece proximity alarm system is the best choice as it is independent of the vehicle system one on the child or what ever and one on you.

Sorry omitted the quotations on below.

W

"Mobile Proximity Alarm.

It is lightweight (both the transmitter and the receiver together weigh about the same as four quarters) and compact making it the perfect device to protect you from theft or forgetfulness and to alert you when little ones wander off. Simply put the transmitter on the person or item to be protected and if it goes out of a 15 to 25 foot range of the receiver an alert sounds..."

[soccermom]

Fair enough. It is hard to comprehend. I'd like to think I would never do that. But there have been times when my baby falls asleep in the car and is so quiet I forget he is there. In my situation, I'm a stay-at-home mom. Sometimes, I take my baby with me during the day to go shopping. Other times, I wait until the weekend so I can leave him with my husband while I shop. Now that my older kids are home for the summer, I often let my 14-year-old keep an eye on him while I run errands. My point is, my routine varies. So let's say I have a couple of errands to run and along the way the baby falls asleep. If your baby is asleep, you're not interacting with him. And, let's face it, if he isn't babbling you probably aren't talking to him. I can see how a mom's mind would wander to thinking about other tasks -- maybe turn on the radio, etc.

As for this woman, I don't know her situation. I'm just saying it is plausible. Maybe, it was ususally her husband who took the baby to child care and she forgot because it wasn't normally part of her morning. Maybe the baby was up all night and she was so sleep-deprived she just spaced out. Maybe she's suffering from post-partum depression and just isn't functioning in her right mind. I don't know! Have you ever missed a turn on a route you take routinely? I've done that a few times. I go to the same grocery store every week. But there have been a couple of times when I've taken the wrong freeway exit, even though I've done that trip countless times. We just don't know what was going on in her head.

There is one thing I'll grant you, though. Had this been the driver of a day care center bus, rather than the parent, I would have no other explanation for the driver's actions but carelessness.

[soccermom]

Yeah, I'm an AF brat. As a teen, I volunteered at the base day care center and it was really nice compared to most centers. It would have to be because of all the military oversight. My dad's last assignment was as a base commander and he couldn't believe all the stringent regulations they had for that center. For example, using lysol as opposed to bleach for disinfecting was a big no-no! Anyway, as day care centers go, they are great. No wonder it is so hard to get in.

The nice thing about centers, as opposed to home child care centers, is that there is plenty of oversight, so you don't have to worry about abuse etc. The drawback, as you well know, is there isn't the one-on-one attention and love you can get at a home child care center. Even though, as an adult, I think base day care centers are a good alternative, as a child, my sister and I were horrified by the base nursery! My mom stayed home with us, but every now and then she would take advantange of their hourly care if she had an OWC meeting or something else like that to attend. Both I and my sister (I'm actually 1 of 7, but only my immediate younger sister and I recall the base nursery) remember it as something out of the wild west -- kids running around, pushing, hitting etc. My sister will never forget that some kid ripped her dress! Anyway, looking at it as an adult, it probably wasn't as bad as we remember. But, for kids who were used to being home with mom, those few hours were not fun! As long as you really trust the provider, a small home day care is the best option :-)
If I were to advise couples in a situation where both have to work, this is what I would suggest. (I'm not suggesting this for you -- you've made a good choice. I'm just saying what I would suggest in general):

1. Work opposite shifts. If you can work evenings and weekends, while he is with the kids, that is ideal. Of course, with some jobs the husband's schedule is unpredictable so that isn't possible.
2. If you have a relative who is willing to do it, have them babysit the kids. Again, that isn't always possible -- we have no relatives anywhere near us.
3. If you can afford it, have a child care provider in your home. Of course, that is impossible for most people and it has to be someone you trust implicitly.
4. A home day care is the best option for giving your child the kind of environment you would give him if you could. Again, though, it has to be someone you trust implicitly! The drawback to home daycares is there is no oversight. You have no idea what is going on during the day and there aren't a lot of parents coming and going, so the home care provider has to really be scrutinized. If you have a good provider, this can be great. But if you have a bad one, this is the worst possible situation. In your situation, you know the woman well and you work with her husband, so you're in a good situation.
5. Institutionalized day care centers would be my last resort -- especially for very young children. For infants, it really is more like a warehouse -- too many babies, too many tasks for the kind of one-on-one love a baby needs. A center like that might be better for older kids, because it gives them a school-like environment. If a mom is in a desperate situation where she doesn't know anyone at all in the whole area, I would suggest a well-known center like a Kindercare or LaPetite because safety has to be the #1 concern and you have better assurances of that at a center with a lot of oversight. You are going to sacrifice the one-on-one love and attention, but at least you'll know the baby is safe. This is not to say there aren't loving child care providers in centers. There certainly are. But they just don't have the time to be with one child as much as the child needs it. Also, child care is low-paying so there is a huge turnover rate. If there is a good provider, there is no guarantee she'll be around for long.

Anyway, I think you and your husband are doing the best by your kids and your country. Good luck to you! I am truly ashamed of some of the comments on this thread.

[beeler]

Your assumption that I don't work to support my family is a testament to your ignorance. Who doesn't work to support their families? Are you some kind of trust-fund parent? Must be nice...

[beeler]

You're an exception to the rule then. BTW, $240/month for daycare is very cheap. You'd be looking for that price per two weeks at many places in my area. The cost per month for having a child in daycare around here is comparable to rent.

[beeler]

Not every family can have a stay at home parent, true. The vast majority can, but choose not to out of selfishness. These people are indeed monsters, there's simply no other way to put it. If you feel that I am a monster for making this very important observation and speaking about it publicly, fine. But this, and the tyranny of government schools, are the chief reasons we have lost our Republic.

[beeler]

You're not necessarily a monster. I don't hold individuals responsible for things completely and realistically out of their control. However, single mothers (or fathers) who are that way by choice and subject their children to being raised by strangers are most definitely doing a disservice to their children.

[beeler]

Subjecting children to being raised by strangers when there are other options is a crime, or at least it should be. I'm judging the idea of daycare as an alternative to raising your own children, not necessarily any individuals on this thread. But I'm thinking there may be a lot of latent guilt out there because maybe in the back of their heads, a lot of parents have allowed themselves to be tricked into the leftist hype of state-raised children. The "do it if it feels good" culture is everywhere and can be very seductive at times.

[Alouette]

How many children do you have?

[nopardons]

You're really quite the confused, yet arrogant person.

It was STAY AT VHOME MOTHERS and old fashioned fathers, who not only turned a blind eye, two generations ago, to what was happening and allowed their kids to do whatever they wanted to do, that set us on the road to where we are today...NOT, as you claim, working mothers.

Even when mothers didn't work outside of the home, many had nannies and/or governesses for their children. Many, who couldn't afford to pay others to care for their children, just used older children, who were ill equipped to care for babies or toddlers, to do so. And none of this is new at all.

Climb down off that pedestal you've hiked up yourself upon and get an education; you know no historical facts at all!

Your arrogance is MONSTEROUS; as is your ignorance.

Educated in public schools, were you? ;^)

[jennyjenny]

So mommy can scamper off to her all-important marketing job.

A tragedy just like this one happened to someone in my office complex. It was normally the dad's responsibility to drop off the baby to daycare, but this unfortunate morning he had to "scamper off to HIS all important" meeting, so taking the baby was not in the mom's normal routine. It was too late when someone noticed the baby was still in the car seat in the office parking lot.

[M0sby]

"You're an exception to the rule then. BTW, $240/month for daycare is very cheap. You'd be looking for that price per two weeks at many places in my area. The cost per month for having a child in daycare around here is comparable to rent."

Hey..that's $240 per month for TWO DAYS per week of daycare. Not full time.
Full time in this home daycare would be over $600/month. Which still IS CHEAP...Around here (Seattle) full time day care for a 3 year old is usually between $800-$1000+.

(trying to be respectful here)
I guess what is most irritating to me is that it sounds like you are pretty sure that you KNOW what other people's situations are.
You said to me,
"With two children in daycare and you working part-time, you would actually save money by taking them out and raising them yourself. You'd save the enormous cost of the daycare itself, not to mention the extra gas and commute costs (both time and money). Run the numbers and you'll see."

You immediately made the assumption that I HAD NO IDEA what "THE NUMBERS" in my own budget were.
Hence the line, "RUN THE NUMBERS AND YOU'LL SEE."
I wanted you to know that FOR A FACT I HAVE run the numbers and that you shouldn't assume that you know more about my budget than I do.
Especially since you seemed surprised by the amount I am paying for daycare. That alone should let you know that you don't really know what is going on in other people's wallets.
I agree that it is sad to make the choice to WORK for extra fancy cars and great vacations and fancy cars rather that take care of your own children.
For us however that is not the case and I guess I am asking you to keep that in mind when summing up what is "TRUE" for other people.
(again, trying to be REALLY respectful)
Thank you for your reply.

M0sby

[beeler]

So you're actually suggesting that it's better for strangers and/or the government to raise your children? That is a disgusting idea fit only for DU and the women's studies departments of the many socialist re-education camps across the nation. You appear to be the prime example of those selfish, lazy parents who have been duped by the anti-American Left into believing you're unable to raise your children by yourself. It's quite sad and disheartening to see so many people like you on the "conservative" FR boards. This kind of thought not only tends to be the norm in the libertine blue states and their largest cities, but my guess is it extends to the heartland and south as well. Our Republic truly has been lost, at least to some degree. And we have people like you to thank for it. I am honestly shocked that so many in this forum think it's not much better (or worse, in your case) to have a child raised by a mother or father as opposed to being raised by strangers. Also, your "two generation" statement is complete BS. The idea that at any time in our history there were "many" families who employed stay-at-home-strangers to raise their children is a statement worthy of the most ardent anti-family communist feminist in academia (you obviously have been educated in a public university). You, yourself may know "many" who can afford to employee people to raise their children, but the rest of us working for a living can't see all the way up your pedestal.