It's time for a North American Union

Fort Worth Star Telegram ^ | Jun. 11, 2006 | By STEVEN HILL Special to The Washington Post

[Wonder Warthog]

"You prefer the 'Articles' over our Constitution? Strange remark.."

Not at all. Just pointing out that sometimes (most of the time??), our "elected representative" do things other than as originally advertised.

"Exactly my point. -- We are long overdue to make sure that Congress conforms to our Constitution, not to democratic majority rule."

I think you're overly optimistic that such can any longer be done--given the multi-generations long "dumbing-down" process that has gone on in this country. Of course, I also hope I'm wrong about that. Our "re-educational system" has been "selling" the idea that the US "is a democracy" for so long that I don't think sufficient people even know that our form of goverment was intended to be a constitutional republic.

[lawdude]

"People with a pessimistic loser's attitude never can calculate properly.
"

But, half the people in this country are dems and therefore panty-waisted, namby pamby cowards! They wouldn't fight to protect their wives from a rapist. They would ask him just why he does these things.

[rottndog]

They have a corrupt system, one that would would change with US Statehood.

...and, and Mexicans would suddenly embrace the rule of law and dump their culturally corrupt caste system, and, and, the Mexican drug lords would cease their illicit drug trafficking and stop beheadings as their standard operating procedures, and ,and, pigs can fly, and, and.....

[tpaine]

They have a corrupt system, one that would would change with US Statehood. Just as we hope to change Iraq, we could change Mexico.

...and, and Mexicans would suddenly embrace the rule of law and dump their culturally corrupt caste system, and, and, the Mexican drug lords would cease their illicit drug trafficking and stop beheadings as their standard operating procedures, and ,and, pigs can fly, and, and.....

Belittle our efforts to expand our republican form of government if you must, -- but we are spending billions to do just that in Iraq, -- we were successful in doing that after WWII in Germany & Japan, -- and I see no reason why we couldn't do it next door in Mexico.

[rottndog]

..we were successful in doing that after WWII in Germany & Japan, -- and I see no reason why we couldn't do it next door in Mexico.

We were successful in Germany and Japan? 60 years after the fact we are still in Germany and Japan and this is a success to you? We have spent TRILLIONS of dollars rebuilding and protecting Germany and Japan, and this is a success to you?

Now, if you are serious about using Germany and Japan as a model, then you also need to be honest about what happened with Germany and Japan--We completely and totally destroyed these countries. We literally smashed them into complete ruination. Then and only then, did we step in to rebuild. If you are suggesting a similar course of action with Mexico, I might take you more seriously.

The fact of the matter is that given the level to which corruption is thoroughly embedded in the Mexican culture, nothing short of a violent and bloody revolution is going to bring that decrepit 3rd world toilet into modernity. Mexico and Mexican culture is incompatible with the U.S. and U.S. culture.

Talk to me after the revolucion.

[hedgetrimmer]

I think you're overly optimistic that such can any longer be done--given the multi-generations long "dumbing-down" process that has gone on in this country.

If this country has bred any individuals as talented and dedicated to liberty as our Founders, it can be done. After all they took a population to freedom in a world that had always considered the average human being as a belonging of the aristocracy.

[Toddsterpatriot]

So you imagine. Language wouldn't be a problem imho.

LOL! Stop it, you're killing me.

Separatist nightmare ?

Yes, like Quebec. Have you noticed that Quebec with their language difference has been nothing but trouble for Canada?

--Are you defending protectionism?

No.

How can I explain anything to you, when you can't follow a 'dirt poor' argument in context?

You're not making any sense. Making a poor country into a new state or states would be very expensive. Puerto Rico as a state would cost us billions and billions to bring them up to close to our GDP. And they only have 4 million people and their GDP is already $18,600 per capita (about 45% of ours) as compared to Mexico 108 million and a $7,000 per capita GDP (about 16% of ours).

[hinckley buzzard]

I think Ireland could have gained its footing without the EU to hold its hand. They reformed their own business environment and private investment has soared there. Plus. they are (more or less) part of the Anglosphere, so they have a lot in their favor right from the start.

[ckilmer]

the political and economic liabilities on the american people would far outweigh the passing profit of a few multinationals and you know it.

In any case science will be changing the natural resource game radically in the next couple years.

Mexico doesn't have anything the US wants or needs.

[EternalVigilance]

Are you supporting the concept that 'majority rule' can sell us down the river?

Uhh...no.

I support a republican form of government that is based on inalienable God-given rights to life, liberty and private property, as well as the consent of the governed.

How about you?

[tpaine]

Belittle our efforts to expand our republican form of government if you must, -- but we are spending billions to do just that in Iraq, [the Bush Plan] -- we were successful in doing that after WWII in Germany & Japan, [the Marshal Plan] -- and I see no reason why we couldn't do it next door in Mexico.

We were successful in Germany and Japan?

Yes, we were. And we will be in Iraqi.

60 years after the fact we are still in Germany and Japan and this is a success to you?

You a dove?

We have spent TRILLIONS of dollars rebuilding and protecting Germany and Japan, and this is a success to you?

This may surprise you, but a lot less than ten years after WWII, Germany was supporting itself. I was stationed there in '56/57. And except for the cold war, we need not have been there at all.

Now, if you are serious about using Germany and Japan as a model, then you also need to be honest about what happened with Germany and Japan--We completely and totally destroyed these countries. We literally smashed them into complete ruination. Then and only then, did we step in to rebuild. If you are suggesting a similar course of action with Mexico, I might take you more seriously.

It might have to come to that. Maybe that's why Bush doesn't want to waste the money building a fence.

The fact of the matter is that given the level to which corruption is thoroughly embedded in the Mexican culture, nothing short of a violent and bloody revolution is going to bring that decrepit 3rd world toilet into modernity. Mexico and Mexican culture is incompatible with the U.S. and U.S. culture. Talk to me after the revolucion.

Which one? Theirs or ours?

[rottndog]

Which one? Theirs or ours?

If Bush and other like minded corporatists (perhaps yourself included) keeps pushing their open borders plans both in violation of law and against the the will of the American people, BOTH!

[tpaine]

Making a poor country into a new state or states would be very expensive.

You're not making any sense. Under a capitalistic/constitutional system, like ours, people make themselves into productive States.

Why are protectionists & socialists so bad at math?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Under a capitalistic/constitutional system, like ours, people make themselves into productive States.

If we spent zero money on these new states, you might have a leg to stand on. I suspect the welfare payments alone would bankrupt us. Besides, they'd think it was all a plot to steal their oil. It'll never happen.

Why are protectionists & socialists so bad at math?

Probably because they went to public schools.

[La Enchiladita]

Steven Hill
Director, Political Reform Program

Steven Hill is Director of the Political Reform Program at the New America Foundation, which seeks to identify and develop the best opportunities for political and electoral reform, educate opinion leaders and the public about electoral alternatives, and encourage the formation of a broad-based coalition for reform.

Mr. Hill is the former senior analyst and cofounder of the Center for Voting and Democracy/FairVote. He is author of the recently published Ten Steps to Repair American Democracy (PoliPoint Press, May 2006). His previous books include Fixing Elections: The Failure of America's Winner Take All Politics (Routledge Press, 2002) and co-author of Whose Vote Counts (Beacon Press, 2001). Mr. Hill's articles and commentaries have appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Wall Street Journal, Christian Science Monitor, The San Francisco Chronicle, The Chicago Tribune, Houston Chronicle, and other leading publications. Mr. Hill has appeared on national and local radio and television programs, and has lectured widely in the United States and Europe. He was campaign manager in San Francisco for the successful effort that passed instant runoff voting for electing local offices, and was one of the organizers of successful efforts to pass public financing of elections for local campaigns. Mr. Hill received a B.A. from Yale University.

New America Foundation website

[tpaine]

If Bush and other like minded corporatists (perhaps yourself included) keeps pushing their open borders plans --

Think of it this way; -- if we annex Mexico, the border will be in central america or even Panama. -- Much shorter and easier to control.

[rottndog]

...if we annex Mexico, the border will be in central america or even Panama.

This is so naive. You make the unrealistic assumption that a new Mexican state will suddenly give up its' corrupt ways. This is utter nonsense. The only thing that will happen if we extend our borders down to Panama is that we will gain thousands of more miles of undefended borders. The problems will be much worse.

BTW, if we annex Mexico, could you please explain what you would do to deal with the drug cartels which control much of Northern Mexico?

[Czar]

"It looks like some were just waiting for this subject."

They always are.

[Schweinhund]

True. But the infrastructural build up would probably have taken more time. The Czech Republic is another prime candidate in my eyes - they will probably put the EU money to good use.

With the tax rates...the problem Ireland is now facing is that they indeed became so successful, so rich compared to European standard, that they are now expected to pay into the very pot they got their help from.

[Wilhelm Tell]

The socialists will never learn. It is an article of faith with them that people only exist so that some ruling class can mold them.