Retirees Will Face Dire Straits [Baby Boomers to force following generations to suffer]

"..it needs to end here; I will not be an accessory to blatant theft from unborn generations.

I think the only fair approach would be to publicly admit that it has been a Ponzi scheme and that nobody's interest is served by continuing. We should then cash out the trust fund and pay out to all those who have paid in in proportion to their total contribution. It is not unlike any other bankruptcy - pay the creditors in proportion to their stake. Everybody is on their own. Then one has charity for the destitute. For example, our church supports those in need. However, support is contingent upon getting and heeding sound financial counsel - like making and adhering to a budget. Why should those who have been prudent sacrifice to enable those who act profligately?

"I think the only fair approach would be to publicly admit that it has been a Ponzi scheme and that nobody's interest is served by continuing. We should then cash out the trust fund and pay out to all those who have paid in in proportion to their total contribution."

But--those of you viewing at home, say it with me--there is no trust fund! That money has all been spent. We are running current ops on it, and have been for the past forty years! How do you cash out an account that's overdrawn?!?!?!

"It is not unlike any other bankruptcy - pay the creditors in proportion to their stake. Everybody is on their own."

If that is the case, we'd screw the current seniors even harder. Some of these SOBs sure deserve that, but there is no way in hell most seniors will ever accept or deserve such a 'proportional share' of the 'trust fund,' when that will equal a big fat zilch. And we'd never get the votes for such a plan. Even if we allotted a certain amount of money as a minimum for everyone, or a total amount to allocate, even guaranteed a certain proportion of the money paid in by EVERYONE, it'd never fly if the seniors didn't get every penny they paid in. Never. That is why we MUST pay them every penny plus interest, not because they are more deserving of it than Gen X, but from a purely pragmatic perspective--we'll never get anything accomplished if we don't.

"Then one has charity for the destitute. For example, our church supports those in need. However, support is contingent upon getting and heeding sound financial counsel - like making and adhering to a budget. Why should those who have been prudent sacrifice to enable those who act profligately?

Agreed, but let those charitable works be done by charities, not government. Government shouldn't have been in the charity business to begin with, and if it is in that business, at LEAST it should call it that, instead of pretending it's a savings account or trust fund.

Of course, as long as we're fantasizing, I'd also like Stephanie Seymour (in her prime) sitting on my lap.

But--those of you viewing at home, say it with me--there is no trust fund! That money has all been spent. We are running current ops on it, and have been for the past forty years! How do you cash out an account that's overdrawn?!?!?!

True enough, as far as it goes. Correct me it I'm wrong, but is not the trust fund holding T-Bills? If so, assign the T-bills proportionally. If people want income sooner, they can sell the T-bills for a cash settlement.

That is why we MUST pay them every penny plus interest, not because they are more deserving of it than Gen X, but from a purely pragmatic perspective--we'll never get anything accomplished if we don't.

I could live with this. I would benefit; however for the sake of my children I would prefer the former option.

Agreed, but let those charitable works be done by charities, not government. Government shouldn't have been in the charity business to begin with

I agree. Charity must include accountability, otherwise it simply enables irresponsible behavior. I really liked Marvin Olasky's book - The Tragedy of American Compassion. Too many see government as a free candy store.

Of course, as long as we're fantasizing, I'd also like Stephanie Seymour (in her prime) sitting on my lap.

Guess I'm showing my age; I had to Google to find out who she is; I guess I was always partial to Jane Seymour in her prime....

RSteyn asks: "In your case, what happens to all the people who used to manufacture film as silver halide technology implodes? "

Silver halide won't be the first technology to disappear. Who makes buggy whips today? Phonograph records? Slide rules? Dislocations happen every day. Freedom and self-interest solve the problem. The solution won't be the same for every employee. Some will need more education. Some will need to relocate. Others will opt for an early, less affluent retirement than they once might have planned.

One of my favorite anecdotes deals with food production in the Soviet Union. The authorities approved allowing people to grow their own produce. In a couple of years, 1% of Soviet acreage was producing 24% of their produce. The difference was solely that the producers owned the fruit of their own labor.

RochesterFan said: "Correct me it I'm wrong, but is not the trust fund holding T-Bills? "

Here I think you have hit on why people disagree on exactly when the system will be broke.

The debt instruments in the trust fund are obligations of the US government. In order for these to purchase food, gas, electricity or any other thing of value, they must be converted into cash, by selling them to a willing buyer or by the government redeeming them for cash.

Selling these IOUs will cause them to compete with the other bonds that the government is using to engage in deficit spending. There would be a spike in cost to the government in having these debt instruments in circulation.

Similarly, redeeming the bonds for cash requires that the government consume tax revenue that would otherwise fund scads of liberal fantasies. This would cause much wailing. Alternatively, the government could just print the cash. You can guess what that would do to the value of the US dollar.

My point is that the date when the trust fund runs out of money, because there are no more IOUs to sell, comes much later than the date when the impact of having to sell ANY of the IOUs is felt.

There are challenging days ahead and they are not far enough away for me to believe that I will not be affected. For this reason, I intend to sign up early, at age 62. As an older Baby Boomer, I have come to expect that the rules will change just as I reach the door. It has happened several times in my life, so I anticipate having to commit early.

As for not taking the benefits as an altruistic measure to help "balance" the books? Not me. The bleeding-heart liberal socialist party is also the anti-gun party. I intend to do everything I can to destroy them as a reward for infringing my right to keep and bear arms. I am Atlas. Hear me shrug.

As one of those Generation X people who is actually saving for my retirement (though I plan on working 'til I drop), my concern is that spendthrift Baby Boomers will empower the government to grab my nest egg in order to pay for those who didn't prepare. Thus making my efforts pointless.

And something else that I'm concerned with is the fact that by the time I retire (and my house is paid off), my property taxes and insurance on my house will probably be more than I'm paying on the mortgage right now. Plus, although I'm putting a fair chunk of money into mutual funds through a 401K plan, I'm wondering just what the stock market will be like in another 20 years, while people are looking to cash in their funds for retirement.

I hold no hope that I'll ever see a penny of social security.

Mark

My question to all of this is, where did all the years of taxes and SS money go that we boomers have been paying in all these years?

Let do a reckoning of the expenditures, and then add foreign aid, worthless government programs, and untold years of welfare fraud/over-entitlement.

By and large, the boomers had a much better work ethic, and usually worked all their life for a single company. They practiced better savings and money managment techniques, ALL THE WHILE PAYING INTO THE SYSTEM TO PROVIDE SS RETIREMENT TO THE ELDERS.

Now, the money we paid in - by rights - determines what we are paid in SS benefits NOT what the X & ME generations feel like they should pay. These over-educated young people have bought into the MSM/liberal hype that they will not be receiving any SSI benefits when they get older.

Well, maybe instead of slamming the boomers who worked all their lives, they should be looking at who outsourced America's jobs overseas. Eventually, Atlas will shrug and all the manufacturing we gave to foreign countries, will be producing imports at Americans no longer have the money to buy...because they have all our jobs.

Without a manufacturing base, we become a nation based on "information"... or paper - as worthless as those early "internet companies" are now...and the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

The people writing those "blame the boomer" articles are the spoiled children of the boomers, who are buying into the "sky is falling" predictions of the left.

Unfortunately, most of the Boomers REALLY want far more than they put in, given their actual income tax payments for the benefits they got, and given their ever-increasing life expectancies.

That is the problem. My willingness to forego my six-figure contribution to SS/Medicare is not enough, because it does not give them as rich a take as bleeding younger generations like their parents got away with. They don't just want to take everything I've given, they want to bleed me for even more under some sick socialist delusion that I personally owe them that money.

It sickens me that self-styled "conservatives" think that they are entitled to as much thievery as has been done unto them. They are not merely satisfied with stealing everything I've given to date, they want to steal the rest as well. All it proves is that most conservatives are as venal as most liberals when they think they can get away with it. It is proof positive that most conservatives are as immoral as liberals if you merely sweeten the pot enough. Anyone who thinks they are owed the money from my egregiously high tax bill are grossly immoral socialists, period, and deserve their fate. All of which explains the Republicans in Congress -- they really *do* represent their constituency.

The only thing that gives me hope is that I do not know anyone in the GenX and younger group that is not deeply aware of the fact that they are being used and screwed by the older generations when it comes geezer entitlements. It will come home to roost eventually, and it won't be pretty. The older generations who have not prepared for that day will have no one but themselves to blame.

Again, it apalls me no end that some many nominal "conservatives" have such an evil and immoral socialist streak. There are much better specimens of humanity than these folks.

These over-educated young people have bought into the MSM/liberal hype that they will not be receiving any SSI benefits when they get older.

What on earth are you talking about? When even a moron can do the economics, it is a damn sure sign that the system is busted. It isn't left-wing propaganda. Newsflash: it is the left that is saying that SSI is just fine. No amount of number juggling gives a shiny happy result, particularly if you are under 40 (in which case the number say you are screwed in the best case).

No offense, but given that the rest of your post betrays a gross ignorance of basic economics, you are basically part of the problem. The SSI money was pissed away while geezer entitlements have grown massively. It has nothing to do with manufacturing jobs or outsourcing, which frankly do not deserve a fraction of the time the outright theft of resources from younger generations deserves.

I do not know anyone in the GenX and younger group that is not deeply aware of the fact that they are being used and screwed by the older generations when it comes geezer entitlements. It will come home to roost eventually, and it won't be pretty.

Right. There are two values growing exponentially: economic output based on capitalism and technological advancements, and the insatiable demands of governments buying off their constituents with the money of the productive. Arnold Kling calls this The Great Race. Without much exaggeration, I could call it "Singularity or New Dark Age".

"The only thing that gives me hope is that I do not know anyone in the GenX and younger group that is not deeply aware of the fact that they are being used and screwed by the older generations when it comes geezer entitlements. It will come home to roost eventually, and it won't be pretty. The older generations who have not prepared for that day will have no one but themselves to blame."

If a reckoning is coming, you can bet that DC will put it off until the last minute. Which means around thirty years from now, when Medicare and Social Security are about 90% of the actual outlays and the feds are printing money faster than they can spend it, there might be something that happens up there. MAYBE.

Personally, I'll bet against it. I think Congress will run us into the wall and hope they've managed to get their own money outside the country in time. I wonder how many years you have to be in office before you get a Congressional pension these days...

>That is why we MUST pay them every penny plus interest, not because they are more deserving of it than Gen X, but from a purely pragmatic perspective--we'll never get anything accomplished if we don't. <

I'm ***planning*** on never collecting a nickel. Talk of any kind of payout is just silly. The realization that SS is a vast con game is not a recent one--I didn't plan on having a nickel left in place to collect back in the early 1970s. Anyone who planned otherwise was delusional then.

>Silver halide won't be the first technology to disappear. Who makes buggy whips today? Phonograph records? Slide rules? Dislocations happen every day. Freedom and self-interest solve the problem.<

Dislocations happen daily, but the destruction of manufacturing is something different.

One more time: what becomes of the kind of people who fit into manufacturing operations, but who have NO aptitude to become much more, mostly because they lack the inherent intelligence?

It's well and good to talk about dislocations and self interest fixing everything, but if you have ever worked in a manufacturing environment, you know perfectly well that there are a lot of guys suited to an assembly line or a plant who will never be able to morph into something more intellectually demanding. Many of them are perfectly decent, hardworking people; I knew one guy well into his 50s who worked 12 hour shifts week after week with all the additional time he could scrounge to put a daughter through college--but he was not qualified to do much else. 50 years ago these people were the core of the middle class. "Service jobs" do not financially compensate the way manufacturing jobs do, even non-union manufacturing jobs.

Few buggy whips are manufactured here today, but truth be told, not much of anything else is, either. Processed foods, scientific instrumentation with the nameplates of "US" companies on them, personal care items such shampoo, are increasingly coming from somewhere else.

>all the manufacturing we gave to foreign countries, will be producing imports at Americans no longer have the money to buy...because they have all our jobs.<

The people who believe that they will never be affected by the destruction of American manufacturing continue to amaze me. If they work in an office and never get their hands dirty, do they honestly believe their big houses and big investments will be worth anything when Americans are largely incapable of buying much?

But then, then Gen Xers won't have to feel put upon by SS raids on their paychecks, because not only will there no longer be a SS system, they won't have paychecks, either.

its NOT the baby boomers that are causing the problem.....

the problem lies solely with what today's elderly are demanding and GETTING from the govt.......

there are tons of people that have never worked yet get SS.....tons of people using Medicare like a personal fix it for every single little thing...like toe fungus....and GETTING it all for little or nothing...

SS did not always grab nearly 16% from workers......originally the percantage was very , very small....

so not only do the people collecting today get money, they often get money many times over whatever they contributed, if anything....

to be fair, shouldn't those collecting today be given cuts?

now I am not talking about those who are barely above water, or even those that live relatively well yet simply....

I am talking about the double and triple dippers, and those with massive pensions from private companies .......

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