Trying to Catch the Wind

The American Enterprise Online ^ | June 6, 2006 | William Tucker

[Tribune7]

[goodnesswins]

Put a bunch of turbines in DC, right in the Senate and House buildings....there's lots of wind (hot air) there!

[P-40]

Storage of vast amounts of electricity, currently a technological impossibility, could solve the problem

Solve that problem and you are set for life.

[saganite]

I didn't read anything in the entire article that could recommend wind as a source of power beyond boutique status.

[Young Werther]

Solved.

A power plant in Michigan, (I think), has a magnificent "battery" to store excess energy while it is producing power during non-peak hours. Energy is converted from electrical to potential energy. The thermodynamic laws are not violated!!!

A man made hill with a lake on hits top was constructed. When electrical demand is below grid needs water is pumped uphill. When the power plant is running at full capacity during the day and additional grid demands are felt, the water is allowed to flow downhill and the turbine pumps are now generators and the potential energy is converted back into electricity.

FDR once worked on a tidal basin plan which would capture the tides between Nova Scotia and Maine which can vary from 15 to 20 feet. Again water flowing down hill would produce the electricity. In that case, the Moon would have performed one half of the cycle.

Fact, 90% of the elctricity produced in North Dakota is exported to Seattle and Minneapolis.

Any Questions? There WILL be a test.

[neverdem]

Informed consent waived in public crisis (new FDA rule)

FDA approves cervical cancer vaccine

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list.

[Doctor Stochastic]

For storage, we could have two lakes (at different levels) with a hydroelectric generator between. Pump the water up at night (low demand) and have the water flow down through the generators during the day.

[neverdem]

Storage as potential energy somehow doesn't seem to appeal to electricity generators. It appears they just want to sell to the grid. I think you might need a government mandate for that solution, or why didn't they sell it to the shareholders already?

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

The difference between the present and the future is that the basket of energy sources is going to have to grow. Wind is going to have to be part of it as will nuclear, coal gasification, solar, ethanol and as much as many here hate to admit it, conservation.

Most of the cheap oil left is in the Middle East and the geopolitical risks make it not so cheap.

The markets will take care of the problem, but the United States will have to play catch up in the development of the technologies and their implementation unless incentives are put in place that accelerate the process (i.e. the government itself promising the purchase American renewable/conservation technology).

Otherwise, Americans will be buying their technology from the Germans and Japanese (and probably Koreans), just like their cars.

[herkbird]

The facility you speak of is just south of Ludington Michigan. It's not a man made hill. It's a very high Bluff on the coast of Lake Michigan. They dug out a really huge pit to develop the lake which they pump the water into at night when power consumption is very low.During Max power requirements they let the water flow back down the hill generating extra reserve power.

My Grandfather lived in Ludington when this project was being built. My mother use to drive us kids to this place to watch the progress. The first time I saw how High the bluff was above Lake Michigan was very impressive. We used to cruise on Lake Michigan an always went north on the lake for some reason, little did we know of the beautiful coastline going south out of the Ludington Harbor.

This facility which was finished many years after we moved from Michigan, has won many Engineering awards for it's technical achievements. There's a web site that has some pictures of this beautiful Man made facility that are awesome to view. Maybe I'll locate and post the URL for the pictures of this Energy reservoir.

I now live in Georgia, which has several lakes that work on the same Principal of pumping water back into the lake after being used to generate power during the daytime. Of course to be able to do this, you need two lakes in sort of a series design such that the back lake draws water from the front lake to replenish the water supply. Both lakes water levels fluctuate about two feet every day when this process takes place.

They seldom operate the pump back system on weekends so that property owners are not as affected by the changing water levels. This does have an effect on the fishing as the fish are now only in the habit of feeding when the dam is flowing, which makes weekend fishing very difficult. Of course if you can be on these lakes during the week when generation occurs, the fishing can be awesome.

[P-40]

A man made hill with a lake on hits top was constructed.

That is cheating! It has to be something hi-tech! :)

I have heard of something similar using giant rotating drums.

[Dumb_Ox]

This facility which was finished many years after we moved from Michigan, has won many Engineering awards for it's technical achievements. There's a web site that has some pictures of this beautiful Man made facility that are awesome to view. Maybe I'll locate and post the URL for the pictures of this Energy reservoir.

Please do. The simplicity of this idea is downright elegant.

As for wind power, if it ever gets developed I wouldn't be surprised to see various scare stories about how upwinders are stealing cheap cooling from the downwinders, leading to wind rights legislation even crazier than water rights are now.

[herkbird]

Try looking at this URL. Since I have trailer trash WEBTV I had to look at the HTML version and it didn't have any pictures. Although there's another Photo image sight somewhere where I saw the photo's of it.

http://www.cpco.com/apps/pdf/pdf/ludington.pdf

Please let me know if they have any decent pictures of this place. If there are some decent pictures please send a couple in jpg format to me by email. TIA

[herkbird]

If you use the URL in post # 14 and then select search. Type: Ludington energy reservoir

This will bring up many links with some neat pictures and descriptions of the facility. Try this link:

Consumers Energy Web Site
Address:http://www.consumersenergy.com/welcome.htm Changed:3:21 PM on Wednesday, January 4, 2006

I believe you will find this facility very entertaining to read about and view the pictures. Although it says the Cliffs at the edge of Lakes Michigan are only about 330 feet tall. It looked much higher from up top looking down when I was about 11-12 years old. According to the article the plant wasn't even being built when we drove by to look at it. I believe they had just purchased the property when we visited the place.

Michigan was a really great place to grow up as a kid. But having to live with the winters as an adult is for the birds. I much prefer the year round weather of Georgia, but I will say that western Michigan along Lake Michigan is a beautiful site.

Of course my Grandfather lived just north of Ludington on Hamlin Lake which was a great place for boating, fishing, and swimming fun. The Ludington State Park is also a great park facility with many trails and sand dunes which makes it an extremely popular spot in the summer. This park sits between Hamlin Lake, and Lake Michigan which includes some spectacular sand dunes in the area, that provide for awesome sunsets over Lake Michigan.

I sure look forward to getting back there one day, to enjoy some of the wonderful sites I enjoyed in my childhood. Traverse City, Michigan where My best childhood friend moved to, a place called, The Bowers Harbor Inn, where I spent many weeks each summer. I have just found out on the net, that his old Inn was haunted. I find this kind of funny as I never recall it being haunted when I used to visit my friend and his family their.

Getting back to the energy source in Ludington, It seems like there could be many more sites available for generating this sort of power without having many ecological concerns. In fact it appears as though this facility adds more wetlands and wildlife habitat to the area.

[herkbird]

This WEBTV STINKS....
Try this...

http://www.consumerenergy.com/content/hlermenugrid.aspx?id=34 - 34.7KB

I hope this works. If not select the one of the topics that says Ludington welcomes power storage facility or something like that. I'm getting a little frustrated with my WEBTV Trash.

[herkbird]

I feel like a stupid and DUMB Jerkbird. try this once and for all.

http://www.consumersenergy.com/content/hlermenugrid.aspx?id=34

I left the s out of consumersenergy. Bam, I just had to slam my head with the keyboard for that stupid error. I hpe this will work for you know.

[herkbird]

I'm starting to lose my mind about now, so I grabbed my meds and maybe I'll get you there this time. Once you get to the Consumers Energy Site, go to search and type in:

Pumpback storage welcome

This will bring you directly to the web site that has the pictures and info. If you have any trouble finding it, GOOD Luck.

[herkbird]

Pumpback storage welcome should be
pumped storage welcome

I'm unplugging myself brfore I go into meldown. I hope this makes you very happy, I have totally ruined my life tonight with this frustration. AAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH.....

[herkbird]

It's another day, today, and hopefully my mind will be working better for a short time. If you go to Google Search and look up "pumped hydroelectric storage in America" You will find many very interesting sites that explain the pro's and con's of pumped storage a well as also using compressed air in underground caverns to run turbines for short periods, very interesting, It's so amazing what you can learn from surfing this web. Have fun reading up on some of this stuff, but the only problem is that this pumped storage is not the end all to the worlds energy needs.

Like always the enviro-wacko's have their headaches with anything that makes energy, no matter how little it may effect the environment. I hope you find this as educational as I did. Have a great day.