Marine at Haditha: 'I Can Still Smell the Blood'

ABC News ^ | May 29, 2006 | JONATHAN KARL

[JCEccles]

There is way too much smoke for there not to be fire.

You're sure hoping, anyway. The possibility that Marines might be to blame has you ecstatic, almost in rapture.

We'll see. Bullet wounds to innocent civilians can come from terrorist guns, too, you know. But that would ruin your fondest fantasy.

[MJY1288]

I didn't put any words in your mouth, you consider them guilty, and I don't, You say their actions were "Calculated", I say it just as likely could have been Terrorists who killed those people.

All I stated was that "BASED ON THE FACTS" I would not find them guilty... my apologies, but I owe these Marines NOTHING less

[r9etb]

Soldiers are human beings who can make mistakes

IF it turns out that a Marine did this, I really hope you don't try to pass it off as a "mistake." Whoever did this -- an American or an "insurgent," it was not a mistake. It was murder. And let us not forget that.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

This was an incident and it was not a war crime whatsover.

Whether or not it was an incident, if it happened as described, it was a war crime.

[Chesterbelloc]

Having just read that article... ...The more I read about this, them more questions I have.

Which, as I'm sure you know, is the whole reason to have investigations. The only thing I trust the press to do consistently is completely mess up the facts of a story.

[jveritas]

Sinkspur is a great freeper, and he may have his moment of fear as we all do from time to time. We shall overcome this liberal attack on us and our troops. Eventually liberals and their media are going to overplay their hand on this one as they always do, and at the end the voters will see it as an attack on our troops in times of war, and the democrats will pay the price in these coming elections.

[Bratch]

This was posted by Mary Catherine Hamm at HughHewitt.com:

Something very bad happened in Haditha on Nov. 19, 2005. One Marine and 24 Iraqis died in the wake of a roadside bombing, which hit a Marine convoy. Fifteen of the 24 casualties were civilians, some women and children. Was it the fog of war? Were the civilians "collateral damage?" Or was it a deliberate massacre?

We don't know. The investigation is ongoing and no Marine has yet been charged.

But you'd have trouble discerning that from reading press coverage of the incident. Time originally reported the incident in March, under the headline "Collateral Damage or Civilian Massacre in Haditha?"

Earlier this month, Congressman and retired Marine John Murtha announced at a press conference that U.S. Marines had killed innocent civilians "in cold blood," referring to the incident in Haditha. The press conference was a political event held to mark the 6-month anniversary of Murtha's high-profile political failure of 2005-- his call for cutting and running in Iraq.

Because Murtha decided to convict his brother Marines before their trial, the press got the soundbite it needed to do the same. The headlines largely dispensed with the question posed in the original Time piece. Today, the phrase "in cold blood" brings up 1,450 Google News hits. It's been the headline of the month.

The Haditha story picked up pace this week as Pentagon sources close to the investigation started leaking word that there may be murder charges in the case. The Marine Commandant's trip to Iraq has also piqued interest.

The Post has been unable to get anyone from the Pentagon on the record on the investigation, using mostly anonymous sources. The one man they did get on the record on Friday was retired Brig. Gen. David H. Brahms, a long-time lawyer with the Marine Corps who has experience with these types of cases. His quote is in the third paragraph. See if you can guess why the prominent first-quote placement:

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"When these investigations come out, there's going to be a firestorm," said retired Brig. Gen. David M. Brahms, formerly a top lawyer for the Marine Corps. "It will be worse than Abu Ghraib -- nobody was killed at Abu Ghraib."

---

I have a feeling someone was lying in wait for an Abu Ghraib reference. I read the quote and was taken aback because I spoke to the same Brig. Gen. David M. Brahms about the case this week, and his sentiments were very different from those presented in the Post. Which explains why he sent me this statement yesterday:

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"Recent reporting on the events in Haditha, Iraq have included significant factual errors and/or misleading statements. This includes a quote attributed to me in the Washington Post this morning that was taken completely out of context and its meaning distorted. Many facts that are favorable to the Marines involved have not yet been disclosed."

---

When Brahms and I spoke, he made it clear that his concern is that the Marine Corps do a thorough investigation and punish severely those who did wrong, if in fact it is found that they did. He feels confident that will happen. His other concern is that the Marines involved get a fair trial in a highly politicized environment:

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"The worst thing that can happen in a case of this kind is to have it politicized...that's exactly what has happened here. They're leaking a story which is yet unwritten." "It's not normal to have a Member of Congress to decide to have hearings, at least while this whole business is in flux."

"I think there has been (a rush to judgement)...This has got to impact the fairness of the procedure."

"We'll get more precise information. Let's kind of step back, let's try to realize that there's another side of this story...People accused may be guys like my son and your brothers."

"The problem is, of course, that everybody's got a political agenda...in the middle are a group of American Marines."

---

Those quotes are all taken from a phone interview I did with Brahms this week.

Brahms confirmed what press reports have said, that charges in two investigations-- an NCIS investigation of the incident itself and an Army investigation of whether there was a cover-up of the incident-- are likely to come in mid- to late-June or July, with military justice proceedings in August.

Brahms did mention Abu Ghraib during our conversation. He's hoping Haditha does not turn out to be a similar black mark on the American military and the war effort in Iraq. He's also hoping press coverage won't make Haditha a black mark even before the investigations are complete.

If indeed Marines acted out of line, they will be punished, he said, and he's confident the Corps will be circumspect in its investigations. Three commanders were sacked in the immediate aftermath of the incident.

Folks on the anti-war Left are crowing that Friday's leaks mean "Murtha was right," as Oliver Willis put it.

Well, no. Murtha said Marines murdered civilians in cold blood. The leaks say Marines may be charged with murder in the case. We've got charges and a trial to go before Murtha can be right.

It's an important process, during which much more truth will be revealed about this incident than can come out through leaks.

If Marines did murder civilians without regard, then Haditha is a name that will rightly forever bear the same kind of shame for the American people and the American military as My Lai. But conferring My Lai status upon this Iraqi town before the truth is out is irresponsible.

It is Memorial Day Weekend. Our men in uniform certainly deserve the presumption of innocence and a little patience from us, no matter our positions on the war.

What Happened in Haditha?

I think I'd be leery taking any quote in the MSM as gospel, particularly from a military officer.

[Ciexyz]

I thought there was a policy -- at least at one time -- that a soldier couldn't talk to the press about his unit's military activities. Please advise me further about this matter, those of you in the know.

[JCEccles]

sinkspur is in gloat mode, not fear mode.

[BlueStateDepression]

And you sound like someone who wants to deny that something very serious happened here.

OK something serious did happen here and the truth is that what that something actually consists of remains in dispute. We have a path to get from where we stand now to the reality. It is called innocent until proven guilty thru the presentation of evidence at a fair trial.

And lay off the "DU troll" nonsense.

Troll or no troll I find myself agreeing with you on this one. Troll status should be left to the Mods,they cull them quite nicely. But hey that is just my worthless opinion.

Somebody(s) lost control and may have killed 24 innocent civilians for no reason.

GEE, for a second there I thought you were referring to every roadside bomb that goes off, every car bomb that blasts a market, or maybe a suicide bomber that blows up a religious dinner in Tel Aviv.

Funny how the World jumps at every possible thing when the USA military was anywhere near and demonizes the entire armed forces as if one incident equates to the general practice of the entire military, but fails to recognize that EVERY attack waged by our enemy has that very endgame as their goal. Why is it that their actions are dismissed when they ARE doing this at every turn but when the USA has something that even LOOKS bad it IS credited to general practice?

This incident is only now being investigated because it was hidden from the higher ups at the Pentagon for over three months.

Maybe ,just maybe it is being investigated as it is now becasue blind malicious claims have been made and further evidence is needed to show innocence of our soldiers? A Certain DUKE case comes to mind on that note. I am not saying I know one way or the other what happened, simply because I have no way of knowing either way. Undoubtedly though, I will side with soldiers until shown reasons not to do so. I sure wish others would do the same.

If what is alleged happened, this is Abu Ghraib times ten.

Would you go so far as to apply that same mantra to the acts of our enemies on a daily basis? Would you say every one of their attacks rises to the level of Abu Graib times ten? WOW, where is the world outrage man? Indeed where is yours and the comments towards them like the ones you make here towards the US military?

Sure seems to me that in this one simple post you expose the very giblets of your position and that of much of the American left. Focus on the USA, hammer it unrelentingly based on the almighty "IF", ignore all context and the fact no guilty verdict has been handed down while totally dismissing what it is our enemies do every damn day. Rediculous, absolutely rediculous and as transparent as it gets!

[MJY1288]

I had a Chevy Suburban towed to my shop on a Saturday in mid July, where two people died of blood loss after the their truck rolled over, the vehicle sat in the Sun for two days in front of shop, and I could smell the blood in it as I walked by the vehicle on my way to open the shop. Rotting flesh is another story, totally different smell

[sinkspur]

You're in hate mode, Eccles.

You're always in hate mode. Witness how many times that hate blinds you to the truth.

[danamco]

What the deal here is... sinkspur is afraid of the MSM and how they will use this as their Vietnam moment, I say screw the MSM, they are no longer the final word.

Stop putting words in my mouth. You've already indicated you would not convict any of these Marines of murder, no matter what a courts-martial proved.

By that logic, why should there be any rules of engagement at all?

Just mow down as many Iraqis as you see.

Every Iraqi is the enemy, it appears. Even those that aren't.

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No good can come of speculation surrounding a Nov. 19 incident in Haditha, Iraq, in which 24 Iraqi civilians, including women and children, were killed in the aftermath of a roadside bomb attack, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said today. Marine Gen. Peter Pace also stressed that investigations into alleged misconduct by U.S. Marines in the incident are not yet complete.

Appearing on CNN's "American Morning" for what was to have been an interview focusing on the nation's Memorial Day observance today, Pace told Miles O'Brien that two investigations are still in progress: one to find out what happened, and another to find out why senior officials were not aware of the misconduct allegations until February.

"We will find out what happened, and we'll make it public," Pace said. "But to speculate right now wouldn't do anybody any good."

Army Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, commander of Multinational Corps Iraq, initiated a preliminary investigation Feb. 14 when reporters told U.S. officials about allegations of possible violations of the rules of engagement by Marines. In a March 17 news conference, the general said he had ordered further investigation based on the results of the initial probe.

"I understand it's going to be a couple of more weeks before those investigations are complete, and we should not prejudge the outcome," Pace said today. "But we should, in fact, as leaders, take on the responsibility to get out and talk to our troops and make sure that they understand that what 99.9 percent of them are doing, which is fighting with honor and courage, is exactly what we expect of them."

Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Michael W. Hagee is in Iraq doing just that, the chairman said, "because regardless of where this investigation goes, we want to ensure that our troops understand what's expected of them in combat."

Asked if he suspects that a cover-up at lower levels of command caused the delay between the incident and senior officials becoming aware of possible misconduct, Pace said he doesn't suspect anything, but rather is waiting for the investigation to yield the facts.

"If the allegations, as they're being portrayed in the newspaper, turn out to be valid, then of course there will be charges," he said. "But we don't know yet what the outcome will be. It'll take its course. It will be made public, and we'll all be able to make our own judgments."

[r9etb]

And suppose that this really happened then what? Should we withdraw from Iraq and let the terrorist declare victory over us all because of this one incident. That is what liberals and their media want to take full advantage of here. As freeper Cursader mentioned we holding our troops to impossible standards, it is a damn war!

You're already making excuses, and you're trying to put stupid words into sink's mouth. Yes, it's a damn war. And we, sir, are Americans who must hold ourselves to standards higher than the pieces of shit we're trying to get rid of. That's what separates us from the salamikazes.

The "then what" if a Marine did this, is that the POS should be tried, and either sentenced to a swift death, or put away forever in a dark hole.

[MJY1288]

"Sinkspur is a great freeper"

I agree

[Txsleuth]

John McCain was on CNN today...and first he said that Rummy screwed up the war in Iraq...

THEN, he said this story is "apparently true"...and that he and Sen. Warner are going to hold hearings by the Armed Forces Committee as soon as they can....

Sooooooo, the Senate (with their puffed out chests), are going to have hearings on an incident that hasn't even been completely investigated...and NO ONE has even been charged...BUT, they already believe it is "apparently true"...

Now, all they need to do, is invite Rep. Murtha to sit in on the hearing and it will complete the dog and pony show of propaganda!!

[Txsleuth]

I don't think any of us are saying that there is NO WAY this didn't happen...

But, I think most people, even military people tend to put out the "worst case scenario"...when they don't know the facts yet...just in case.

I just don't see the necessity in hanging these Marines before they have even been charged, (if they are).

[sinkspur]

I think I'd be leery taking any quote in the MSM as gospel, particularly from a military officer

In this case, Hamm heard almost the identical thing from Brahms as had been reported in the press:

Brahms confirmed what press reports have said, that charges in two investigations-- an NCIS investigation of the incident itself and an Army investigation of whether there was a cover-up of the incident-- are likely to come in mid- to late-June or July, with military justice proceedings in August.

"Charges are likely to come" sounds as if he knows that there will be some serious charges filed here. That's exactly what has been reported in the press.

[Txsleuth]

Great post, well put.

[jveritas]

If few Marines killed the civilians then they must be punished severely. However we must put things in perceptive. This is one incident in 3 years, and the rarity of the incident is a great testimony to the discipline and professionalism of our troops. Liberals and their media are going to take advantage of this to further sabotage the war effort but they fail miserably as usual. In fact they will overplay their hands as they usually do and people at the end will see it as an attack on the troops in time of war.