Posted on 05/29/2006 8:15:23 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
""The regime seems to be pushing Russia back towards an authoritarian regime in which it essentially disposes of the country's policies; in which the people have less and less to say; in which the competition is gradually eliminated. It's not anything like the Soviet regime, but it's not the type of regime we hope to have, and I'm very disappointed in what's happening." - Richard Pipes, May 23, 2006"
No disagreement and we helped push it in that direction a bit - as Pipes also pointed out.
You mean blackmailing and intimidating their neighbors? Why? Because we "pushed" them? it's Bush's fault?
they can be countered in a different manner than we currently are.
How exactly? By appeasing Russia and screwing over nations which sided with the US in Iraq against the wishes of Russia, China and France?
"By appeasing Russia and screwing over nations which sided with the US in Iraq against the wishes of Russia, China and France?"
Surely you can come up with more ways to deal with Russia than "appeasement" or is that your first inclination. We could counter them easily and at the same time bring them "into the fold." If you think they actually trust China you're sadly mistaken. Russian critics of Putin's China policy correctly point out that the Chinese will screw the Russians over in favor of the US when it suits them in the future - leaving them holding the bag and in a weaker position.
The Russians would respond better to "quiet" diplomacy over speeches in Lithuania. Those types of actions are counterproductive. Furthermore, we need to mean what we say. Empty rhetoric not backed up by action does absolutely nothing. If we are p.o.-d at the Russians about something we need to tell them straight up, if you do "x" we will do "y." And then if they do "x" we better do "y." As it stands we softshoe around the subject or some make blustering statements and then NOTHING happens. And, as such, the Russians don't really pay much attention. It's time we start acting like the sole superpower that we are. We have the clout and power to do so.
Tailgunner only knows how to bitch when he sees something he perceives to be wrong. He doesn't have a clue how foreign relations should be handled, which is why he wanted to go to war with the Russians over the bases we were using in the Stans. Never mind that Russia helped us to secure temporary use of the bases in the first place.
[snip] trojan horse known as "illegal immigration" will allow terrorists to carry WMD's across our southern border [/snip]
[mocking target="librals"]
Ah, but the illegial-imagrant/terrosts have a guarenteed 2nd Amendment right to carry these weapons! (Even though the general citizenry does not.)
[/mocking]
Why must you consistently lie about my position in attempts to smear me? You need to go the confession.
"I argued at the time that Russia would not go to war with the US over K2. Since that time Russia and Uzbekistan have signed a mutual defense pact. Now the opportunity to overthrow Karimov has passed."
Are you saying this is a US foreign policy failure? You seem to want to tie our whole foreing policy on countering Russia. A country that is not yet in direct confrontation with us (although people like you seem intent on striving in that direction). The "Russia/Uzbekistan Pact" is a complete mistake and once Karimov is ousted Russia will pay the price. Uzbekis will NOT forget who stood with them and who lept into the breach. This was a complete misstep by Putin. He could have condemned Karimov as well AND secured a good reputation with the Uzbekis themselves. Instead their first act upon Karimov's demise will be to boot the Russians out. Not a very far-sighted policy move on Putin's behalf. The U.S., so far, has played it right. Let's see what happens next.
That was a bizarre thread. Gary if anything is understating the position TJoe presented on that thread. Worth a read.
Thank you Joe for citations. I continue to support what I was said in them.
I remember very vivid our lifes under Soviet Union. I was school pupil then student of univercity then was assigned to work in other univercity. Then was post graduate in mechanics and mathematics.
I was inside of strata of soviet scientists. This group was very informative. And if soviet propaganda spoke to people with nonsense the members of such groups didn't beleive it since they knew truth.
We knew then that Russian Empire died in 1922 and new state Soviet Union wasn't russian national state. That is most reason and source why it is failed. Simply russians turned backs on it and supported the separatist leader Yetsin.
I tell you more that today Russian Federation is more russian national state but still not enough. And in today Russia there are unwinding processes when may bring RF to failure too. The policy of Putin seems by many and many peoples as not nationalistic enough. SO I don't know but in future it might be great troubles on that base.
As an avid student of history, you can imagine my excitement when I found that I had achieved my sales quota and had won a trip to Rome; a full week in Rome. I signed up for every tour a person could take; the Vatican, the catacombs, and of course, the coliseum. What a fascinating place to visit.
Upon leaving the coliseum, I asked the tour guide what caused all of the holes in the exterior walls. He said, "Oh, those holes are because they dug the iron out." You see, the Romans poured a molten iron key to hold certain building blocks together. By doing so, they prevented the building blocks from moving in relationship to each other. The technique insured structural integrity. I was puzzled by the answer, but simply put it away in the back of my mind for future reference.
Fast forward twenty years: I still love learning history and have accumulated several DVD videos about the Roman Empire. While watching one for the umpteenth time, I heard something that caused me to recall that day at the coliseum. The narrator was explaining the fall of the Roman Empire and how the barbarians came to control it.
You see, the barbarians wanted to become Romans. They wanted to participate in, and take advantage of the benefits of being a Roman. When they were rejected, they decided to conqueror Rome and become the masters of the Roman Empire. They did just that.
Having won the military battles the barbarians found themselves ill prepared to fill the void created when they wrested control of Rome from the previous administration. Those that could left Rome to avoid living under the incompetence of the barbarians. It was around this time that a period in western civilization began that is now known as the Dark Ages.
The inhabitants of Rome, the barbarians and their off-springs, did not understand the mining of iron ore and smelting it to make iron. That technology and knowledge of it left with the fall of the Empire. Hence, to get iron, they dug it from the walls of the coliseum. By the time Napoleon arrived one thousand years later, the city of Rome was nothing more than a backwater with fewer than twelve thousand inhabitants living among the decaying walls of the once mighty forums and basilicas.
I cannot help but compare the fall of the Roman Empire with the Uno de Mayo Reconquista. The United States certainly has "hordes of barbarians" at our borders in the form of illegal aliens. On the one hand the argument for letting them participate in the American dream is that they are simply seeking a better life for themselves. Often that is quickly followed by, but this is land that was stolen from us and we will forcibly take it back if we have to.
Like Alaric and the Goths, surely the soldiers of the Reconquista will find delivering economic attacks against the society they claim they want to be a part of is much easier than functioning as a productive citizen. They are by and large, uneducated and to some degree illiterate; they do not read or write Spanish. They are unaccustomed to functioning in a society of laws. Their political heritage is that of the "patron system" (one big boss make all of your decisions for you) which grew out of 700 years of Moslem domination of the Iberian Peninsula and the "caliph" form of government.
They have absolutely no concept of the intricacies of a free enterprise economic system based upon laws, or the requirements of its citizens. One can get a glimpse of their capabilities by simply looking at the countries that they left and remember that the best and brightest stayed home.
They are the perfect pawns for the Marxist ideologues intent on socializing the United States; see Cuba, Venezuela, and Bolivia.
In short, regardless of how the media portrays the importance of the illegal aliens, they are incapable of filling vital positions in our society. As members of society, they are incapable functioning in a manner that will advance our economic well being.
In Texas, Hispanic males account for more than one half of the students that drop out of school. So at best, we can only expect about half of the Hispanic males to have a high school education. They are not a boon to the United States. Like all uneducated people, they take more out of the system than they put back it. Anyone who attempts to tell you otherwise has political motivations.
Metaphorically speaking, as the Reconquista progresses, the only question left unanswered is how long will it be before we see the holes in the concrete structures to retrieve the rebar.
And the interesting thing is TGJ beats the drum for war, but has never served and will never serve in the Armed Forces.
Maybe you should have kept reading up to post 31 when I replied TO YOU: "Get it through your head, Gary. The Russians can't tell us what to do. They are not even strong enough to win the war in their own territory. They'd back down just like they did in Iraq." and then in the very next post, "The Russian-Chinese axis will sputter and fume just like they did over Iraq, and just like they are doing now over Iran. We'll smile and nod and then do whatever we want." Again in post 55 I mocked your dire chicken little predictions of WWIII in a post to WoofDog: "All your predictions of a nuclear holocaust seem pretty ridiculous to me. As if the Russians would fight a nuclear war over muslim Uzbekistan."
Now I have presented absolute PROOF that your accusation that "he wanted to go to war with the Russians over the bases we were using in the Stans" is nothing but but a BALD-FACED LIE! Yes, my statements are quite clear in context, and yet they completely contradict your false claim.
So the question remains, why are you so pathologically screwed up that you have to repeatedly slander anyone who does not worship Russia like you do? Russia doesn't have a veto on US foreign policy regardless of how much you wish they did!
Why do you pretend to be a Christian when you are obviously a remorseless sinner who routinely bears false witness without any repentance?
I think its because you are really a muslim practicing Al-Taqqiya (the muslim art of deception). That would explain why you have repeatedly posted anti-American conspiracy theories from virulently anti-semitic sources such as Lyndon LaRouche and Justin Raimondo.
Even though we disagree often I respect how you stick to the issues and avoid baseless personal attacks like these wannabe-Russian frauds who pretend to be US veterans in order to shield themselves from any criticism.
This is the important part for all of you Viet Nam vets. You won the war.
Thank you for your service. And thank you to all of our service men and women.
Even though we disagree often I respect how you stick to the issues and avoid baseless personal attacks like these wannabe-Russian frauds who pretend to be US veterans in order to shield themselves from any criticism.===
Accually Joe I don't think that someone here is "fraud" I think that everyone expresses his own believes.
I found that some guys in United States see Russia either too grim or too bright.
I being thinking why is that and came to conslusion that the reason here is the anti-russian bias in informations about Russia as the remnants of Cold war.
SO when people live in US and did never see Russia by thier own eyes they got grim picture of her from MSM.
But if such guy travelled to Russia and breefly saw her through his own eyes then the picture in his brains turns upside down and his opinions become very bright about her.
I trully beleive that you Joe is not exception. If you will go to Russia one day then you will return with very differnet views about her then today.
I think it is just the trait of human phyco. If he heard something bad about some subject but in personal experience he finds out that the subject isn't that bad at all then he fell to opposite side he became to think they lied to him overall that the subject is too good.
So I know Russia little longer:) then the majority of guys here so my views are more critismical then thier:).
If you ask me why that US and Russia has so much contoversies today then I would say that both sides are guilty.
One side (russian) in 1992-1999 saw America as too bright so lost reality and when Amrica went to bomb serbs they just got deisappointed so much that turned to other side: to bash America.
They just was glad that they found inperfections in thier own monument of America. They found that no one is perfect so America bombing serbs in thier eyes is "lying America which betrayed thier trust".
Believe me I tell you a truth that before 1999 the 70-80% of russians supported America and Russia of that time listened America' words much much closer then today Russia where support of America is near 5-10% only.
American side is guilty of snobism. Someone convinced yourselves that "America won Cold war":). So inllusional:).
Accually it was Russia who destroyed USSR. What America did is just support of russian leaders. The smartness of Reagan wasn't Star war but his support of Gorby then Yeltsin. His support allowed Gorby to tell everyone that "Cold war is over" and militarised economy and policy should be drown down.
Without that there wouldn't no withdrawal of soviet tropps from eastern Europe then free eastern Europe.
SO I hope you got the picture.
But that the "illusion" of winner of Cold war helped to create selfish policy of "only-one superpower". So they say "disregard Russia". Hence reaction of Russia followed.
That is what I think.
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