7 deadly books? Talk of ban hits burbs

Chicago Sun Times ^ | 5/22/06 | RUMMANA HUSSAIN

[retrokitten]

Well, I found the basic components of graphic sex....

ROTFLMAO!!!

This thread has some incredibly odd twists and turns...

[Bella_Bru]

I am proud to say I caught your sarcasm.

[gondramB]

I've only read Slaughterhouse Five - I don't like Vonnegut's politics but the book is brilliantly written, filled with level perfect for dissection in an English class and very engaging for young readers.

Based on that limited sample the woman seems most likely a busybody up to no good.

[Borges]

To this day I cherish an unappeasable bitterness against the unfaithful guardians of my young life, who not only permitted but compelled me to read an unexpurgated Bible through before I was 15 years old. None can do that and ever draw a clean sweet breath again this side of the grave....

Most honestly do I wish I could say a softening word or two in defence of Huck's character, since you wish it, but really in my opinion it is no better than those of Solomon, David, Satan, and the rest of the sacred brotherhood.

If there is an unexpurgated in the Children's Department, won't you please help that young woman remove Huck and Tom from that questionable companionship? - Mark Twain

[Alter Kaker]

You will have to read more about the culture back then.

That's not answering my question. You made an affirmative statement -- I tend to be skeptical of affirmative statements in general unless backed by evidence.

Then you won't be hoodwinked by the gay history-revisionist propoganda.

You misunderstand my point. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I don't know and you haven't attempted to prove why you're right. I'm not going to believe what you say, just because, unless you can provide a compelling argument.

Even as late as Melville's "Moby Dick" Ishmael and Queequeg share a bed and no one to my knowledge has accused them of homosexuality.

Utterly irrelevant. You made a statement about what royal culture was like in France in the 13th century. American whaling culture in the 19th century is irrelevant to that. There may be similarities, or there may not be, but you have to inform the latter before you go off spouting authoritatively on the 13th century.

[Alter Kaker]

I am proud to say I caught your sarcasm.

You may be just slightly ahead of the curve on that one. ;-)

[Bella_Bru]

You really might want to consider investing in some sarc tags. ;-)

[Siena Dreaming]

I'm not going to believe what you say, just because, unless you can provide a compelling argument.

Of course you're not. You'd rather believe the gays' so-called "compelling argument". LOL.

The Moby Dick example was to show that men simply sleeping in the same bed wasn't an issue until this century. If you can't understand that, you will if you get to know your history better.

[Alter Kaker]

Of course you're not. You'd rather believe the gays' so-called "compelling argument". LOL.

I think you're being a bit silly.

Let's take a step back.

You claimed that it was common for royal men in 13th century France to share beds. I asked you for evidence. You haven't provided me with any.

Provide me with some evidence and I'll believe you. This has nothing to do with gays, and everything to do with making sound arguments based on solid facts. Don't be a liberal and say it's true because you feel it should be.

[Alter Kaker]

The Moby Dick example was to show that men simply sleeping in the same bed wasn't an issue until this century.

All the Moby-Dick example proves is that it wasn't an issue to Herman Melville when he wrote Moby-Dick.

[Borges]

BTW, Homoeoticism in Moby Dick has been a subject of scholarly inquiry for some time now. From the example you mentioned to the 'Shaking of the Hand' chapter. It's been said that the two key novels in the American Canon ('Huckclerry Finn' being the other)are both predicated on the unconsummated love of a white male for a non white male.

[DesScorp]

"Edna Pontellier was a loose woman of low moral fibre, hardly a model for our youth"

The book was "re-discovered" in 1969 by the counter-culture and promoted in schools. The "hero" left her husband and children for a younger man. When that fell through, she committed suicide rather than return to that dreadful family stuff. Yeah, a great role model for kids....

[Alter Kaker]

BTW, Homoeoticism in Moby Dick has been a subject of scholarly inquiry for some time now

I resisted the urge to talk about the more than slightly obvious homoeroticism in Shakespeare's 20th Sonnet, which Siena brought up earlier. This thread has enough tangents as it is.

[Borges]

She's not supposed to be a simple 'role model'. Is Hester Prynne a role model? Emma Bovary?

[DesScorp]

"Many on FR think to ban any book from a high school is like Nazi book burning."

And that's total bunk, because some books are not appropriate for a high school audience. Should the Joy of Gay Sex be on high school bookshelves? Why, banning it is censorship! *sarcasm_tags=ON*

[VOA]

SoS is hot enough to help give a high-octane boost to the preaching career of
Tommy Nelson (friend of a friend).

http://www.tommynelsononline.com/Default.asp

IIRC, Nelson said that SoS was considered Adult Material by historical Jews...
and locked away so the kids wouldn't read it.

[gondramB]

>>The book was "re-discovered" in 1969 by the counter-culture and promoted in schools. The "hero" left her husband and children for a younger man. When that fell through, she committed suicide rather than return to that dreadful family stuff. Yeah, a great role model for kids....<<

Do all characters in books need to be role models? What about the bad characters?

[Siena Dreaming]

Oh, also the recent brouhaha over Abe Lincoln supposedly being gay.

Solely based on the fact that he slept with his law partner because they couldn't afford 2 bedrooms. They had success with the Richard I myth so now they're expanding it to Abe Lincoln.

Opposite sex siblings also commonly used the same bed until recent times. No sexual connotation there either.

You want specific examples of men sleeping in the same bed from the 13th century. Why would you want that when Richard I lived in the 12th?

[gondramB]

>>Solely based on the fact that he slept with his law partner because they couldn't afford 2 bedrooms. They had success with the Richard I myth so now they're expanding it to Abe Lincoln.<<

I'm not saying I believe the conclusion but that isn't nearly the only evidence they cite.

[DesScorp]

"Do all characters in books need to be role models? What about the bad characters?"

If they were using the character as an example of how not to act, I could see your point. But why should parents sit idle and let schools promote foul literary characters as examples of virtue? Would you not have a problem with schools promoting the communist manifesto as the way to go on economics and politics? How would you feel about Mein Kampf as a guide to race relations?

Not all values are equal, and once upon a time, schools had enough common sense to recognize this.