FAIR TAX BOOK- 2nd Ed. Revisions

self | May 5. 2006 | RobFromGa

[Your Nightmare]

Vern Hoven Tax Seminars

Let me get this straight, you are posting some nonsensical diatribe from this guy making money off the complexity of the current system (you can take the "2005-2006 Real Estate & Investment Federal Tax Update" online course for only $59.90!) as some indicator that the Flat Tax is complex? This guy would be out of business if the Flat Tax were implemented. He would say anything to keep us from switching.

His arguments are just dumb. He says a farmer could avoid paying taxes by purchasing a new farm every 10 years. It doesn't work that way. If the farmer takes $1 out of his business as personal income, it's taxed. If the business makes $1 of profit beyond what he takes out as personal income, it's taxed. If the farmer wants to keep buying farms and never turning a profit, yeah, he won't pay taxes - he also won't get any benefits from his business. This guy's argument is just dumb.

The fact that you post this (again, and again, and again, ad infinitum) is just evidence that you are clueless to what a Flat Tax really is.

The bad news is that the accounting records necessary to fill in the postcard are still required,

OMG! Businesses would have to do accounting!!!! THE HORROR!!!!

in some cases more burdensome than under present law.

Complete and total BS.


I could go on and on with this guy. He totally misunderstands or, more likely, misrepresents the Flat Tax (as you do, also).


For anyone really interested in the details of the Flat Tax (that leaves you out, AG), The Heritage Foundation has put out a fine "Brief Guide to the Flat Tax." It is worthy of a read.

[Your Nightmare]

Thought you'd like to know ;-)

Thanks for the clarification!

[Dimples]

Things are great, thanks for asking.

For me, it's not about satisfaction about being right, it's about taking the steam out of the FairTax locomotive before it runs the economy into the ground. It's a long, slow slog, but we're making progress. It's especially hard when so many have invested so much emotion into a dangerous pipe dream like the FairTax. Here's my original post on the topic:

Can the NRST Really Reduce Consumer Prices by 20% to 30%?

[xcamel]

You keep quoting this crap that is first "yesterday", then 200 years ago, then 50 years ago, then 100 years ago.. are you some kind of schizophrenic?

Income tax has about as much to do with communism as lake trout have in common with bottled water.

Oh, and you're a liar.

COMMUNIST MANIFESTO

 

The official manifesto was published in February 1848 by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. You can see the complete text here.  The underlying philosophy of Marx and Engels can be summed up by the oft-quoted phrase:  "from each according to his means, to each according to his needs."

Following are the ten official measures (planks) needed for a Communist society, exactly as published in the English language translation.  Resemblance to the platform of the modern Democrat Party is not coincidental.

1.  Expropriation of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2.  A heavy progressive tax.

3.  Abolition of all right of inheritance.

4.  Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5.  Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

 6.  Centralization of transport in the hands of the State.

7.  Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of wastelands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8.  Equal liability of all to labour.  Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9.  Combination of agriculture with industry, promotion of the gradual elimination of the contradictions between town and countryside.

10.  Free education for all children in public schools.  Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form.  Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

[EternalVigilance]

I guess your eye skipped over number two.

[EternalVigilance]

What are your thoughts on Hamilton's words of wisdom in Federalist #21?

[EternalVigilance]

Wow. The defenders of the IRS are getting strident.

Someone must have upped their budget and staffing.

[AmericanDave]

Now that HAS it's appeal!

[AmericanDave]

I'm for the power of the purse: the Boycott. How does this make your point if you want to keep the current tax and withhold system?

[ancient_geezer]

If the farmer takes $1 out of his business as personal income, it's taxed. If the business makes $1 of profit beyond what he takes out as personal income, it's taxed.

Of course you have overlooked the fact that Congress defines what is allowed in business deduction to even get to the point of determining what is defined to be income to be taxed. The realm of creative tax preparation and loopholes, that are so profitable to the tax preparation and consultant business, lay in the supporting regulatory environment that goes with defining what is and is not allowed as business expense in the eyes of Congress and the IRS.

Indeed Vern Hoven is quite correct, and why the current system is the complex mess it is today.

It isn't the number of tax brackets or size of the final report card that makes for the complexity of an income tax system. It is the rules governing the separation of business expense from taxable income where the opportunity lay for an ever expanding tax code which the Flat Tax can do nothing to change.

The first implementations the income tax system were little more than what is claimed for the Flat Tax, the devil as always lay in the details, the ever expanding number of details to compensate for the creative accounting of those who thrive in the income tax preparation industry.

Theinherent problem with any income tax is always separating what Congress considers to be business expense from income to be taxed. The definition of business expense is not at the option of business, it is the neverending quest of the lobbiest interacting with the Congress critter setting the agenda of such definition and consequent growing plethora of regulation that goes with it.

The form a tax due is written on has little to do with what it takes to get there or establish the varacity and accuracy of what goes onto that form to which government holds the taxpayer accountable through audit and other intrusive measures employed by tax system administrators.

[groanup]

Does not the elimination of witholding give the power of boycott back to the people?

The elimination of K-Street - the buildings full of lawyers and "associations" that spend millions of dollars on politicians to buy favors that are easily doled out through tweaks in the tax code. Want to sell your hot water heaters? Get congress to allow tax credits for it.

Wouldn't it be better to eliminate all of that crap? NO tax lobbyists, just a progressive consumption tax.

[groanup]

How dare you quote Regan and mumble over a marxist tax fraud with the same keyboard?

You see why we can't take you seriously?

[RobFromGa]

Fed 21 says that the government will live within what they are able to collext through taxes, and thus they are constrained somewhat by the will of the people in this regard.

The FairTax bill says we'll collect $X and adjust it upward each year automatically to support our predetermined spending level and we'll adjust the taxation rate to make it collect this amount of money.

There is no similarity between the two positions. Even a FairTaxer should be able to see that.

[groanup]

That's just an un-provoked, un-called for response from an obvious sick mind...

Yeah, it obviously bothered you and Rob a lot more than it did YN. So sorry my acccusation against another poster hurt your feelings.

[RobFromGa]

Want to sell your hot water heaters? Get congress to allow tax credits for it.

Please provide us a list of all these special protections that the K street lobbyists have put in place for hot water heaters, etc.

[RobFromGa]

Yeah, it obviously bothered you and Rob

Not really, it just showed again what an arrogant jerk you are. And intellectually bankrupt too when you have to make incorrect assumptions about other posters to try and rally your position.

[RobFromGa]

(s)

BTW, when you were posting under the influence last night you messed up your tagline.

[groanup]

"Please provide us a list of all these special protections that the K street lobbyists have put in place for hot water heaters, etc.":

http://www.globaltowne.com/

[groanup]

Not really, it just showed again what an arrogant jerk you are.

Such a nice guy. BTW, how's the life insurance business?

[RobFromGa]

Do you think the FairTax will get rid of special tax breaks for things the pols think are in their best interests-- like Energy Efficiency?