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New Poll: Americans Prefer House Approach on Immigration
U.S. Newswire ^
| 5-3-2006
| Steven Camarota
Posted on 05/03/2006 7:45:44 PM PDT by nckerr
click here to read article
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To: nckerr
Wow, can you believe that, there really are some 'Real Republicans' in Congress. I was beginning to think they all turned into Democrats once they started serving their elected term in office.
161
posted on
05/03/2006 9:16:05 PM PDT
by
Dustbunny
(The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
To: JamesP81
OK, I got an idea: instead of offering problems, how about you offer a solution. According to Zogby (who was predicting a Kerry presidency on the morning of the election), my solution is unwanted by Americans.
So, I'm just providing a pressure test for your solution.
If employers have all the paperwork, and pay SS taxes for their employees, proving that the employer knowingly hired illegals would be very difficult.
162
posted on
05/03/2006 9:16:29 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
( I didn't know until just now that it was Barzini all along.)
To: OKIEDOC
Hello,
Yeah I did, should have made that clear, sorry,
Glad to be here, MOgirl
163
posted on
05/03/2006 9:17:44 PM PDT
by
MOgirl
(Democrats: The Culture of Treason (and you know what I'm talkin about!))
To: sinkspur
If employers have all the paperwork, and pay SS taxes for their employees, proving that the employer knowingly hired illegals would be very difficult. I would argue that your point has merit, and that perhaps the law needs to be amended to enable employers to quickly and accurately cross-check SSNs. For example, such a system is already in place for gun purchases. I have purchased 2 firearms recently, and in both cases they checked my SSN, name, address, criminal record, record of any domestic violence issues (which is generally not criminal but is in family court), tax records (liability), etc. etc. They did this literally in a few minutes.
Would this be so difficult to implement for employers?? A prospective employer could check the SSN against a database, and confirm that the name matches, the gender matches, the approximate age matches, the location in the country matches, and that the SSN is not in use by 50 other people.
Then, employers might not have much of an excuse.
To: nckerr
If so this is great news. Republicans are afraid to alienate newly voting immigrants, and thus condemn themselves to obscurity forever, as "happened in California." This has split the party. Chatter about caving to "business interests" is baloney. Most industries employing these are small business, and I can assure you the majority of small business has no interest in employing illegals; only in keeping up with their competitors who do, and protecting themselves from liability in checking immigration status.
Hanging around here has made me wonder whether this issue has legs with voters on both sides. The demonstrations may have actually galvanized previously neutral or apathetic voters into immigration opponents. Even 2nd generation and legal 1st generation immigrants are coming out in opposition to this messy immigration disaster, and the radicals who pretend to be leaders of this "movement".
165
posted on
05/03/2006 9:25:54 PM PDT
by
Wiseghy
("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
To: JamesP81
Honestly, I really don't know if there is a reasonable solution that will work in the long run. Part of the problem is two of the more abominable Supreme Court decisions (
Griswold v. Connecticut and
Roe v. Wade) which have severely depleted our workforce, especially in the future when the peak of the Baby Boom retires. Notice that we're at 4.9% unemployment--that's actually below the benchmark for "full employment." It's going to go down even further in the next two decades or so, as boomers start needing assistance in living. Where are we going to get the bodies to do that? Part of the problem is that, in the midst of THOSE social reengineering projects I've just cited, we overturned a century-plus worth of social and economic convention in the Southwest in 1965 without giving it any thought, just to pay off a political favor for the AFL-CIO.
Part of the problem is that we decided, for purposes of "national security," to make sure that Mexico was a corrupt and backward country--and, hence, in no position to challenge us militarily.
Just one of these self-inflicted problems is painful. I've just ID'd three--and that's not the entirety of the problem.
However, a guest worker program, with enough enforcement, will provide a better situation than the present. Basically, it will remove the requirement to demonstrate knowledge of a specific employee's illegality--instead, the charge will be noncompliance with specific, concrete actions that are the employer's responsibility, and easily proven in court.
How to deal with illegals here? Fine them--heavily--if they choose to register in the States. Make it enough that the trip home to apply from there will look good from a financial and hassle perspective. A fine is not an amnesty.
It will not be perfect. But it's a move that I think is both likely to generate a better situation than the present.
To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
"It costs very little, comparatively speaking. The acquittals come very quickly."
Please direct me to your source for this "fact".
To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Where do you put 'em, and how do you guard 'em?
First thing we do is repeal all the welfare spending on illegals, and for that matter, our indigenous deadbeats. That ought to be more than enought pay for it. As for guarding them, use the method the US used in WWII with German prisoners: put the camp in the middle of nowhere, in desert, at least a hundred miles from anywhere. Make sure there is no way to find water within that radius except at the prison. It would require few guards and be totally effective, just as it was in WW2.
As for the shortage of border patrol agents, national guard and regular Army units can back them up until we get a wall built.
To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
You gota be kidding! Mexico's corrupt and that's our fault!! Man that's just plain STUPID!!Maybe those morons out protesting need to be in Mexico protesting.
169
posted on
05/03/2006 9:31:32 PM PDT
by
lonedawg
(why does that rag on your head say holiday inn?)
To: 2ndreconmarine
Even given the capability to do all the checks, I am fundamentally opposed to requiring businesses to do the job of the government, which is to determine who can and who cannot be in the country legally.
If you're here, I ought to be able to hire you. Requiring that I spend time and money to do a variety of checks and, if I fail on one, I can go to jail, is ridiculous.
If the government cracks down too hard on these guys, businesses will just refuse to hire Hispanics altogether, legal or illegal.
The political party responsible for THAT fiasco is going to be out power forever.
170
posted on
05/03/2006 9:32:15 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
( I didn't know until just now that it was Barzini all along.)
To: kerryusama04
Moral of the story, if we legalize the folks who are here and set up a guest worker program, they will demand prevailing wages and benefits, so we gain nothing but a bigger population and a bigger drain on social services.
Not to mention that it will cause the same economic downturn that I hear them screaming that deportation will cause.
Get used to it folks: amnesty and deportation will have similar economic effects. That's not even worth discussing. because it's going to happen no matter what we do.
To: nckerr
A new Zogby poll of likely voters, using neutral language (i.e., avoiding the words "amnesty" or "illegal alien"This poll is flawed.
The meaning of the word "amnesty" (in various contexts) is debatable, but an "illegal alien" is always just an illegal alien.
To: BeHoldAPaleHorse; All
Hooboy, ain't you taking some heat? I really don't intend to pile on, so first may I ask everyone to please turn the burners to Low for just a little while?
I've been giving your question some thought. First, I think there would be serious ex post facto type difficulties making illegal alienhood a felony for those already here. For new arrivals, possibly, but for those who are already here taking their current condition from whatever it is to felonious is probably not going to fly legally.
Second, I'd approach the matter this way - I'd make the conviction of the newly apprehended a matter of deportation with the threat of immediate incarceration as a felon upon return.
Third, for the 12 million or whatever already here I'd offer an amnesty period within which they may go through the existing legal procedures or face immediate deportation. That's within existing law and I don't think we'd have any ex post facto problems with it. They play by the rules, they're in; if not, not. If they have to wait elsewhere while a quota is in operation let that quota be first come, first served (also within existing law).
To stabilize the situation I'd deploy national guard units until a suitable barrier is constructed. Sorry if that looks like an Iron Curtain - it isn't. States have an unquestioned right to the control of both border and immigration and we've lost control of that under the existing conditions.
It isn't a perfect solution but it's better than one side shrieking at the other. IMHO. What do you think?
To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
The worst case would be complete success--you now have to house 12,000,000 people for five years.
Attrition is your only weapon.
To: sinkspur
A better ID process would seem to sail between your Scylla and Charybdis. I just don't buy your Hobson's choice.
175
posted on
05/03/2006 9:35:29 PM PDT
by
Torie
To: lonedawg
You gota be kidding! Mexico's corrupt and that's our fault!!We've deliberately supported those engaged in corruption, up to and including getting rid of their competition (see: Luis Colosio).
A Mexico governed honestly would likely be able to afford a large and well-equipped military. Maybe they wouldn't seek to have such a military; but our national leadership did not want to take the chance.
Man that's just plain STUPID!!
Yes, it's pretty stupid and shortsighted for us to do that, but we did.
To: nckerr
Support for the House approach was widespread, with 81 percent of Republicans, 72 percent of independents, 57 percent of Democrats, and 53 percent of Hispanics saying it was good or very good idea.
Dear Mr. President, Rove, Cheney, Frist, et all,
Are you gentlemen aware that you are very far out on a very narrow limb?
177
posted on
05/03/2006 9:38:09 PM PDT
by
Old_Mil
(http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
To: JamesP81
First thing we do is repeal all the welfare spending on illegals, and for that matter, our indigenous deadbeats.That's too connservative for some folks here. (Cough.)
Some of the rhetoric makes it seem that they resent sharing the loot, if you catch my drift. (Cough-cough.)
To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Make it enough that the trip home to apply from there will look good from a financial and hassle perspective. A fine is not an amnesty.
While I may not like the idea of a guest worker program, at least you seem to have thought this through.
One of the foundations of our law is English common law and one of its tenets is that no man profit from his crime. Whatever we do, we need to make sure that this tenet is followed.
To: BeHoldAPaleHorse; calcowgirl; NormsRevenge
"Just one of these self-inflicted problems is painful. I've just ID'd three--"Don't stop there... Do like Arnold Schwartzenegger and try to lay "Globular Warming" of on all the rest of us Cauleeforneeuns as some sort of "self-inflicted wound," why don'tcha??? The boomers have never cared for anyone else, so why should anyone feel obligated to care for them??? Only the liberals have been celebrating the unbridled snuffing of two or three generations in the womb, so why should anyone give two hoots or any more "bodies" to make up for that error???
Al Gore was the only one who knew how to re-invent, or re-engineer anything (/sarcasm) and I know no one here gives a second thought about him anymore, right???
Hey! How are you going to find any of these interlopers to fine them ANYTHING??? Get real!!!
180
posted on
05/03/2006 9:41:16 PM PDT
by
SierraWasp
(Without consistent core conservatives in charge, the GOP is fast becoming the Gelded Old Party!!!)
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