Contract awarded on first F-35 models (Plus: $1 Billion Flaw in F-22s?)

Fort Worth Star-Telegram ^ | May 2, 2006 | Bob Cox

[Yo-Yo]

Air Force officials told the defense publication that in ongoing fatigue tests of the F-22 they have discovered that critical titanium parts where the wing and tail attach to the fuselage do not meet the design specifications for endurance.

Yikes! Shades of the F-111A wing carry-through box!

[Yo-Yo]

Aerospace ping

[Aeronaut]

[b4its2late]

they have discovered that critical titanium parts where the wing and tail attach to the fuselage do not meet the design specifications for endurance.

And who missed this? Probably Bush or Cheney will be blamed.

[nightdriver]

Nature of the industry.

One classic difficulty in aircraft design is defining the load.

A classic scenario with a military (or any gubm'nt contract) is a meeting of the big shots decides that there has to be something modified. That changes the weight (and maybe the balance) of the aircraft. That means that the pricisely designed structural members are no longer adequate. Hence, redesign. Hence lost schedule, lost budget.

Happens with at least 90% of all gubm'nt acquisitions.

[TalonDJ]

Yikes! Shades of the F-111A wing carry-through box!

And the C-5 wings and stabs. I am not surprised. They were having this use 5 or 6 years ago with the main fuselage structural components. It is a combination of being one of the first uses of titanium on this scale for main structure and the massive vibration those monster F119s put out. Titanium is more flexible than steel and can do some serious osculation with that kind of a vib source. Which is all fine at first but causes fatigue breaks at junction points.

[SENTINEL]

The original endurance test specs also may be highly overkilled due to layers of over-engineering.

[bk1000]

"...nearly all of the 100 or so F-22 fighters already built or in production may have serious defects that could require $1 billion in repairs."

$10 million each for repairs! I am in the wrong business. I'm going to start my own airplane fixing business. At this rate, I'll only need to fix a couple, then I'm done!

[Centurion2000]

Now the Air Force, in an article published Monday by Defense News, has acknowledged that nearly all of the 100 or so F-22 fighters already built or in production may have serious defects that could require $1 billion in repairs.

Lockheed should be made to eat these costs. We paid for the plan to be functional and up to speck when we got it.

[Joe Boucher]

Aeronaut, as a current pilot I would like to hear most things related to flying.
Please add me to your aviation ping list.
Thanks.

[Turbopilot]

Didn't they have the same problem (rush development with inadequate testing of new titanium parts) in the F-14 hydraulic system? I think the prototype crashed due to a failure in titanium hydraulic lines that were developed and built ahead of schedule.

One would think that with all the years and billions of dollars of development of these aircraft, such problems wouldn't recur time after time. Maybe the military needs to go back to the procurement method in which they say that they need an aircraft that does x, y, and z, and they'll buy 500 of 'em for $xx million apiece from whoever makes the best one, and let the aerospace companies sort out the problems before selling them to we the people.

[Pukin Dog]

Now the Air Force, in an article published Monday by Defense News, has acknowledged that nearly all of the 100 or so F-22 fighters already built or in production may have serious defects that could require $1 billion in repairs.

Well, I wondered what took them so long! The Air Force is slipping. This is a FUD (Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt) story, no more, no less. When your latest pet-project is close to the chopping block, it is time to start raising questions about other programs that would benefit from getting your money.

Just a well (but late) timed PR move to try to save the F-35 from being gobbled up in the push for additional F-22s.

[Paleo Conservative]

Dallas Star-Telegram

I thought it was the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. What are you trying to do? Start a war between Dallas and Fort Worth?

[dhuffman@awod.com]

Flexibility is required to osculate one's own fundament but flexibility is not capable of resisting osculation.

[brooklin]

Is the F-35 any good as a fighter? I haven't seen anything about how well it handles compared to a F-16.

[El Gato]

The contract, recently approved by senior Pentagon officials, flies in the face of warnings by some critics that the F-35 program is on such a fast track that it is likely to encounter technical problems and higher costs.

Doing a project quickly doesn't result in higher costs, it usually lowers them. Time is money. That said, most projects need more time during the critical system conceptual design phase. One you start detail design of the parts and pieces, the really big, and expensive to fix, mistakes have likely already been made. Some may not be fixable at all, and must just be lived with.

[El Gato]

$10 million each for repairs! I am in the wrong business. I'm going to start my own airplane fixing business. At this rate, I'll only need to fix a couple, then I'm done!

Not if it costs you $9,999,999.99 to make those repairs, when you bid on the basis that it would only cost say $9 million. But heck you made a profit, so why are you bitching? Hmm?

[El Gato]

Just a well (but late) timed PR move to try to save the F-35 from being gobbled up in the push for additional F-22s.

Both aircraft are primarily Lockheed designed and built, I don't think even LockMart would sabotage it's own program. OTOH, it's a big company, internal divisions are all too likely.

Unless you mean the F-35 SPO vs. the F-22 SPO. That's entirely possible as well.

[Pukin Dog]

Is the F-35 any good as a fighter? I haven't seen anything about how well it handles compared to a F-16.

No one can really say at this point. It has a slight maneuverability edge over the F-16, but not over the older F-18. The stealthiness is not on a par with the F-22, its a gas-hog that cant carry much weaponry. But its pretty, and you would be amazed how much that actually matters these days. Especially when you want to sell it to the whole world.

[Pukin Dog]

If you had a single production line, where you could see the end of the road, and are hoping to hell that the Pentagon does not cancel your opportunity to start a whole new one, you might toss a few cow chips at your current money pit, in favor of your potential brand new money pit.