Posted on 04/28/2006 9:03:39 AM PDT by Bob J
"The people are just people; what we need to get rid of is the slammite religion. The one obvious hole in the whole picture the neocons try to present is the fact that we could install democratic governments in every slammite country and at the end of the day you'd still have a billion people practicing a form of devil worship, which still isn't a good thing."
I disagree, what is needed is destruction of the support sources (predominently Syria & Iran) of terrorism. This is the information age. Freedom and how we live here is being talked about globally even in Iran and Syria. The people of Iran don't want war with the West, the leadership does.
Free nations will choose their own religion and leave others alone. Saudi Arabia is learning the hard way of turning their head to the alligator they allowed to propogate throughout Islam.
Also, Christ was about persuasion, not forcing the "devil worshipers" to change. The Christian way is also the free way. It's the benefits of being free people buy into. Look at the people committing terrorist acts such as suicide bombing. They are poor and live in ghettos. Their leaders promote suicice bombings for political ends and keep all the money for more weapons for more suicides, leading to perpetual motion of the problem. War is not going to ultimately stop Islam, it will be information and inability for evil leadership to stop it. It may take a century and a major war for 1/2 the world to get it, but it will happen.
"We can sustain more nuclear damage than they can. Let's say they have 3 totally effective small nukes and they take out part of NYC, part of LA, and part of Chicago.
We on the other hand then take out all of Tehran, all of Damascus, all of North Yemen, all of the Bekaa Valley, and all of the Afghan / Pakistan border area. Iran won't exist without Tehran, Syria without Damascus, Hamas without the valley, and the taliban without the border.
Problem solved, and done will full and complete international and moral justification."
The point is, this is exactly what the jihadists want. It suicide and stupid but that is how they are. Cunning planners of wonton destruction but no true understanding of how it impacts them in the future.
After such an attack, our country and the globe will be in depression as we rebuild, the Iranian leadership will be underground laughing and then the real puppeteers China and Russia are now the last remaining superpowers on earth. Why do you think Russia is directly arming them with nuclear technology and giving us the finger?
How about China? China needs the energy resources now and is competing on almost every oil/nat gas contract out on the market. Remember the Taliban delegates meeting with the PRC during the invasion of Ahfghanistan? How about the book Assymetrical Warfare created by the PRC specifically talking about using commercial airliners as weapons to bring down a democratic economy? This is about global hedgmony and a ton of smaller terrorists states being puppeted by proxy by the bigger states.
There's nothing like an example, a visual aid to concentrate the mind. Israel blown to bits, for instance, or a Western city or a US aircraft carrier. The present Iranian leader thinks he's got a halo around his head. He feels an 'aura'. I wouldn't be surprised at anything he did, including using nukes. Can you imagine Europe's reaction if a US carrier were destroyed, or Israel? Iran's already said they have rockets that can reach Europe, so knees are already shaking in Paris and Madrid. We can't count on anyone but Israel.
The EU won't like that. They'll demand that we not respond to anything Iran does.
No, they'll think we'll go to the UN on our hands and knees.
That's what should happen, and God willing, it's exactly what Bush has said to Iran, Syria, Lybia, Egypt, Hamas, etc.. But it depends on who controls the White House. Dems won't do a thing.
"That means that real fear doesn't come into play until after they've first been caught."
Yep, your right on accept that it likely will never be reported anywhere in the media to cause the real fear effect of our population.
"Al Qaeda would be caught long before they can get one through."
Likely they would be caught with one and two more would get through to be used later when we have let our guard down again.
"and if it isn't AQ that has them, it's the Russian Spetnaz, Koreans, Chinese, etc. BANK ON them being used in the opening salvo of the next major War - they are designed to take out Command & Control, ensure chaos, etc. And we probably have our own deployed in Russia, China, etc. for the exact same purpose.
Think Strategy here, gang. It's pretty obvious if you're on the other side planning for the "long term"."
Agreed. Russia is arming Iran blatantly at this point with nuke technology and SAM's capabable of delivering nuclear payloads. China & North Korea are helping with ICBM's.
China and Russia are puppeting the proxies, just like in the Cold War, except this time they have raised the stakes tremendously by not fighting global terror alongside us and instead arming it.
We need to take drastic measures against China and Russia now while we have some leverage instead of pussy-footing around with them. How about we arm Checnya with nuclear technology for "peaceful" purposes like Russia is doing with Iran? How about slapping China with massive trade tarrifs so they stop using our TRILLION dollars of liquidity in trade imbalance to build up advanced military to destroy us. They remind me of Japan, their leaders and diplomats talking about peace while the generals talk about destroying us. Everybody's head is in the sand and nobody has the balls to confront the real players and play chicken like Reagan or JFK.
"I think you are correct about citizens wanting blood but, I believe that we will be able to do as well with a conventional response. The nuke response would in my opinion be used only for 'The Big One'. The U.S. would take way to much shiite for a nuke response to be worth the effort. I do not believe a nuke here is a significant threat at the moment. We get a heads up I think in the form of a nuke in Israel before we see one here. In that case Israel goes down swinging so we would get to pick our target list from their leftovers."
I would say that your right in our response, but that their bringing us down would come first. Their haughty assumption would be that once we're out of the picture, Israel will be easy pickings. Instead, what they will get is the Sampson option.
"If we get nuked, our challenge will be to change the entire islamic order once and for all by forcing them to abandon their imperialism - and doing it before another nuke goes off in America. I don't think you can do that with conventional weapons. At least not without a hellrain of conventional weapons, and then you might as well use nukes because the result will be the same."
Great points and I agree. THis is why we should go in with boots on the ground now, full air power, propoganda & special opps, the works. We cannot tolerate these options later, we're damned if we do but really damned later if we don't.
" Agreed on both your points but let me go a little further. They do not care whether we live or die but they want a super Islamic state or what is also known as the 'caliphate'. In my opinion, they do not feel we can destroy all of them nor them all of us. Instead, a nuke or two going off here in the USA gets us out of the ME and focused on rebuilding our country. Meanwhile, they establish the caliphate, attack and attempt to destroy Israel and conquer neighboring oil states with Russia's blessing. We had better start building strong civilian defense and our own energy supply. That is how we can survice and destroy our enemies."
I am not going to disagree with anything you said. I believe you are correct regarding the vast majority of our enemy. I have sometimes wondered if Bin Laden, maybe a couple others, really believe in Islam, or if they just found it a convenient way to get what they want...to cause others a lot of grief and gain power in the process.
But that said, most do want the "caliphate".
"I am not going to disagree with anything you said. I believe you are correct regarding the vast majority of our enemy. I have sometimes wondered if Bin Laden, maybe a couple others, really believe in Islam, or if they just found it a convenient way to get what they want...to cause others a lot of grief and gain power in the process.
But that said, most do want the "caliphate"."
I think a lot of the hatred of the West comes from Zhawahiri then Bin Laden himself. Igniting a war is Bin Laden's way of trying to get us out of the ME. It's a pride issue. Funny how he was a US ally against the Soviets but then turned on us when we refused to pull troops out of Saudi Arabia in 1991 after the gulf war. He does appear to live the true version of Islam in the strictest form, unlike mullahs in Iran or the Palestinian leadership that enjoy many Western comforts and lifestyles.
We can never oust the taliban
There is no way we can defeat Saddam
There is a 100% chance terrorists will hit all over the U.S. immediately following 2001
Suicide bombers will be out in force following 2001
Nukes will be used in New York
Our water will be contaminated by the Al-Qaeda
How many million times have we heard this and other overshock reporting?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.