Religious freedom Afghan-style is no freedom (excellent recap from a marine!)

Christian Science Monitor ^ | March 24, 2006 | Tony Perkins

[Dark Skies]

Recently, we have seen islam attack the two main pillars of freedom...freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The MSM roll over in cowardice at the first challenge. Let's see if the supporters of freedom of religion can rouse their courage.

[manwiththehands]

"We will ask [Rahman] if he has changed his mind about being a Christian. If he has, we will forgive him, because Islam is a religion of tolerance."

"We are tolerant. Just think the way we do so we don't have to behead you."

[Dark Skies]

From the article...

And what else can you call it if Christian converts are killed, or confined to mental institutions, Soviet-style, as the Afghan authorities are now reportedly considering?

This is the very point you raised yesterday...comforting that it is getting some attention!

[Paperdoll]

Dear Lord, I hope he does not relent. You died for us, dear Jesus, please protect this man and afford him Your peace as he suffers for Your name. Amen.

[Star Traveler]

You said -- "Recently, we have seen islam attack the two main pillars of freedom...freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The MSM roll over in cowardice at the first challenge. Let's see if the supporters of freedom of religion can rouse their courage."

And what type of courage might that be? Could I suggest the courage to eliminate Islam as a religion -- from the face of this earth? That would work.

Regards,
Star Traveler

[marron]

Christians fought to free these people. Christians continue to fight to keep them free.

If Christians won't stand for this man, though, we have let the Taliban retake the country by the back door. If German judges started handing out death sentences to innocent jews in post-war Germany, we would know what we were dealing with, and we would remove them immediately.

There is no difference. Everyone remembers the video of the woman being executed in the stadium by coldly callous clerics. This is the same situation. If we stand by while they kill this man we reinforce the delusion that their hate is supported by God. We reinforce the delusion that Christian soldiers are mere mercenaries in the service of muslim interests.

We went there to put down the Taliban. We should leave no doubt that we stand with this man, and that there will be consequences for the men who kill him. We know their names, we know their addresses, and we will not look away.

[Common Tator]

One of the most interesting factors in United States history is that for the first 80 years this nation existed .... slavery existed. Under slavery, those enslaved were legally only property. It was not againt the law for an owner to kill his slave for any reason. It did not have to be a religious reason. The owner could kill his slave for any reason or no reason.

I wonder what the critics of religious intolerance in Afghanistan would have said about our own nation's intolerance in the late 1700s and the first 60 years of the 1800s.

The power to elect leaders does not insure freedom for all. ... no matter what a constitution says. For 70 some years our constitution did not protect slaves at all. But an elected goverment does over time allow the implementation of increased freedoms. Totalitarian forms of government never get better they just tend to remove more freedoms over time.

To expect Afghanistan to come up with our 2005 level of freedom in 3 years when it took us 80 years and a civil war to outlaw owners killing slaves, seems foolish to me. Even today Americans legally murder innocent unborn children whose mother does not want them.

Compared to legal abortion, killing for religious reasons seems to me a lessor crime. After all the Christian in Afghanistan can save his or her life by giving up Christianity.. but the baby about to be aborted in the USA has no way to save its own life.

Which is the greater crime?

[Nam Vet]

It appears to me that the cult of the moon god is the weakest and most insecure of all the world's religions. They are so afraid of their adherent's mere exposure to another religion that it requires death. The slammies KNOW their religion is garbage.

Nam Vet

[Dark Skies]

And what type of courage might that be? Could I suggest the courage to eliminate Islam as a religion -- from the face of this earth?

Hey Star Traveler...haven't seen you for a while, hope all is well.

Ultimately, islam will be expunged, reformed beyond recognition, or it will draw the world into its primitive and demonic hell. D@mned interesting times in which we live!

BTW, I believe Good will defeat evil.

This event is exposing islam for what it is (to appeasers, apologists, and even moderate muslims).

[Dark Skies]

I cannot and will not disagree as to the crime...crime is too kind a word, horror is closer to the truth...of abortion. But evil attacks us on many fronts.

I suggest we must meet all attacks (collectively and individually).

[Star Traveler]

You said -- "Hey Star Traveler...haven't seen you for a while, hope all is well."

Well, good enough, I guess. I don't know where I live anymore, since I'm traveling around. I'm in Texas right now. Hoping to get back to Oregon soon.

Also -- "This event is exposing islam for what it is (to appeasers, apologists, and even moderate muslims)."

That's the absolute best part about the whole thing. It's hard for those others to ignore it now. It's so obvious. It's very good for that reason. I hope this plays out for a while.

I don't mean that anything should happen to that Christian. I'm hoping that he's got good enough protection against any kind of mass hysteria which might harm him.

However, the longer this goes on and the more people talk about it and the more it exposes Islam for the evil religion that it is -- that's all good.

Regards,
Star Traveler

[Avenger]

This is all so tragically ugly. I think the vast majority of Americans, and her allies, would like to do right by the people of Afghanistan and Iraq and the Middle East in general. But will there come a point when we come to the realization that this culture is completely irredeemable and not worth wasting our money and the lives of our men and women in uniform? I'm not saying that it true, but if it does turn out that way, what will we do? There are two options that I see:

1) Withdraw and wait to be hit again.
2) Get medieval.

For better or worse (1) will almost certainly have to happen before we consider (2). It was one thing when they couldn't hit us on a large scale, but technology is spreading fast and Iran is quickly headed toward getting a nuclear weapon. That sort of sick, backwards culture cannot be allowed to possess weapons that can threaten mass destruction on the rest of the modern world. Will we eventually have to hit the cntl-alt-del sequence on that part of the world? If so, what sort of event would have to happen to trigger such a response from the U.S. and other Western countries?

[SIDENET]

Our State Department is presently wringing its hands over the fate of Abdul Rahman

Where the hell is our Secretary of State (and the President) on this issue? Someone had better fix this crap. There's actually quite a bit at stake with this ridiculous trial.

[Sun]

I recieved this by e-mail from frc.org:

"Reports from Kabul quote Afghan officials saying a
Christian convert might not be sentenced to death. Abdul
Rahman must be insane, they say, and Islam is compassionate
toward the mentally ill. Such talk is itself unbalanced.
Contrast it with the quiet dignity of Rahman himself. He
told BBC: "I am not an infidel or a fugitive. I am a
Christian. If they want to sentence me to death, I accept
that." Who cannot be moved by such courage and commitment?

Rahman is being held in a prison where the guards threaten
his life. "We will cut him in little pieces," one of them
told Western journalists. President Bush raised the issue
in his Wheeling, West Virginia speech yesterday. The
President said he was "deeply troubled" and pledged to do
everything he could to protect Rahman. This is welcome
news. Also to be commended is the Council on
American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). I had criticized their
lack of response, but now CAIR has publicly called for
Abdul Rahman's release and said that the Koran supports
religious freedom. Who should appreciate religious liberty
more than American Muslims? When Cassius Clay and Lew
Alcindor converted to Islam and became Muhammad Ali and
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, other religions did not threaten them
with death. To the contrary they were blessed tremendously
by the freedoms they enjoyed in this country. This is a
fundamental test of civilization. "

[Hetty_Fauxvert]

Compared to legal abortion, killing for religious reasons seems to me a lessor crime.

You're an idiot.

And "lesser" is spelled "lesser," not "lessor."

[Nuc1]

The CAIR is a sham. Islam is exposed for what it really is. There is no way to escape the fight that is coming. I pray that when the time comes I have half the courage Mister Rahman has.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Well we'd never dream of imposing our own set of values on anyone. That wouldn't be tolerant. and multicultural. and diverse.

[Sun]

Also the judge is an activist judge (we have them in this country, too).

This is from the Afghanistan Constitution, according to an e-mail I receive from RightMarch.com:

Article
18, which provides that "everyone shall have the right to freedom of
thought, conscience and religion" and that "this right shall include
freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice."

[MarMema]

For freedom to endure it must first gain a foothold

I am starting to think there is no chance of this happening after all.