Posted on 03/16/2006 11:57:00 AM PST by WatchingInAmazement
You have not provide any evidence they are our friends other then Jorge (Rockefeller Republican) Arbusto said so. And if you will care to read my previous posts you will find hte evidence I listed.
Then why am *I* the one pointing out that 9/11 changed everything?
Before 9/11, UAE was on friendlier terms with some of the bad guys. After 9/11, UAE turned on the bad guys.
My entire case is based on a simple premise, so simple I'm amazed you'd find a need to mischaracterize it:
Simple, and clearly stated.
We have bases there, they are friendly to us and our troops, they have caught several terrorists including the Cole bomber, etc, etc, etc.
There is ample evidence that they are a trusted ally. If they wanted to hurt us with a bomb, they'd just wait until one of our carriers were in port and do it then.
And as you know, I *have* read all the things you all have posted.
Not one single valid bit of evidence has come up yet. Just things like, "But they have crime there" and "In the past, they were friendly with some of these organizations" and "But they build houses for Hamas!"
Forgive me, but it's just not evidence that UAE is a danger to us.
Your assertion was addressed, and to the point, in my previous post. These were foreign-nationals engaging in an act of international terror that was committed outside the borders of their own country. They were acting in accordance with beliefs widely held (if not alway publicly proclaimed) by their society and religion vis-a-vis Islam, personal anti-American sentiment among Muslims, and governmental anti-American actions evidenced by votes in the UN, and post 9/11 celebrations.
Please try to follow along. Do I need to start drawing picto-grams for you?
"Again, forgive me if I require some actual evidence of this. The only thing that is known about 9/11 is that some Dubai banks were part of a chain that laundered money. Which does *not* mean that the UAE citizens partly paid for 9/11. That is a bold inaccuracy, on your part."
One last time... please visit the links supplied, and respond in an informed manner, rather than re-stating your personal prejudice and bias based solely upon emotion, and the opinion of others. I've done half your homework for you by providing you with links to 9/11 commission reports, and findings of the US Department of the Treasury clearly linking UAE entities to Al Qaeda both pre, and post, 9/11.
If you're really up for an enlightened debate (beginning to have doubts), please state legal precedent, facts, or some sort of reasoning supporting your position other than 'Bush said so'. Otherwise, please see post #27 in this thread, and re-read the article up for discussion, which are revealing themselves as increasingly apropos regarding your POV and comments.
There has been a wealth of evidence listed in this thread explaining in detail why UAE is a potential threat to us. If you choose to ignore it infavor of you free traitor idealogy. Oh well.
Addressed, yes. But you failed to show a connection between the 2 being born and raised there 20+ years ago and the UAE's danger to our ports today.
As *I* pointed out in a previous post. That's why you have to repeatedly address this point -- what you think answers it doesn't. You still lose the point. The govt of their home country does not get blamed for their actions unless you can show govt involvement with their actions.
If you're really up for an enlightened debate (beginning to have doubts), please state legal precedent, facts, or some sort of reasoning supporting your position other than 'Bush said so'.
"Bush said so"??? Looking back, I can't see once where I've said that. That's a deliberate mischaracterization of my clearly stated position. Getting a little off-base, aren'tcha?
Are you here to have a serious debate at all yourself? Cuz that 'Bush said so" comment makes it seem like you're not listening to me at all.
I've been quite clear in my position --
I find your misrepresenting my clearly stated points to be most instructive.
I have read and responded to your all points in detail. I am not calling names, and hope I'm not being rude. Your side ignores my clear points, calls names, and is constantly rude.
That alone should tell you something about which side has the facts . . . :-)
9/11 undoubtedly changed the strategic thinking on the part of a lot of countries..."you are with us, or you are with the terrorists," does tend to fucus the question.
9/11 didn't just change how other countries made decisions...it changes the way we made decisions also. There was no "proof" that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11, and there was no "proof" he was a danger to us. The point W made was that if you wait long enough for someone to be a danger, you've waited too long.
The idea of "proof" has been turned on its head. So has the notion that the elites will decide what's safe enough, and we'll go along...that got buried in the rubble of the twin towers.
The method of decision making has been changed; no one is entitled to the benefit of the doubt. This deal has three strikes against it....
1) This company is owned by the government.
2) The government is primarily Muslim.
3) There is no separation of church and state in the Muslim world; they're assumed to be the same.
Start there, and prove there's no harm, rather than the other way around. That's what changed on 9/11.
Sorry about that, Chief.
I responded to each, as it was posted.
I guess I'm looking for something different than you guys. I'm looking for evidence that the current UAE govt has supported terrorists, endangered port security, etc, sometime since becoming our ally.
Seems simple enough. And ya'lls refusal to answer is instructive, to say the least.
There was indeed evidence to suggest that Saddam was working with al queda before 9/11.
So has the notion that the elites will decide what's safe enough, and we'll go along...that got buried in the rubble of the twin towers.
"The Elites"??? Tell me you aren't serious??? This and the 'no evidence sadam was part of 9/11' are dangerously close to DU talking points.
This deal has three strikes against it....
Its part govt owned, like Chinese companies. They're muslims. We don't agree with their govt style.
If that's good enough for you, so be it. But like the Soviets during WWII, alliances with govts you don't like are part of the real world. So none of those 3 points are relevant to trusting an ally -- based on history and power politics.
The only thing that would be a 'strike' against this deal would be evidence that this company has, or would, endanger our ports by moving containers.
Something your side seems to be very short on . . .
Whatever, I looked at your evidence and tht listed against DPW and decided that it was to much a risk. You lost, American won. Get over it. And get used to it. Wait until the shamnesty votes start in a few weeks. The free traitor globalist will start howling in earnest then.
I am against any sort of Amnesty. You're just full of misconceptions, aren't you?
I understand. You made your choice, on what was posted here.
I'm simply pointing out that there is no evidence suggesting that UAE is a danger to us. Do with that what you will.
There is a load of evidence.
So ya'll have been saying.
But so far, not one thing that would seem to suggest that the UAE is a threat to US port security has been posted.
Lots of "we don't like their govt", and "but they're arab muslims" and "before 9/11 . . . "
Forgive me, but I require some evidence before declaring an ally a sponsor of terrorism. Something like, "This person in the UAE govt did this that helped these folks blow this up."
Maybe that's just me. Maybe it's too much to ask for. But I don't honestly believe you can fault me for waiting for such evidence before declaring an ally to be untrustworthy.
So you say. And not ONE thing has ever been posted that proves we should trust them. Not one. This isn't a court of law. Common sense prevails here. We disagree on what makes sense. To you it's George Bush. To us, it's everybody else.
Let's agree to disagree on the facts and stop with this silly discussion.
They base our ships, host our troops, have been a partner in the WoT, caught and turned over terrorists, and on, and on.
Evidence that they are an ally to be trusted.
Let's agree to disagree on the facts and stop with this silly discussion.
Well, I am having fun with this 'silly discussion'. If you're not, then ciao, and thanks for the discussion.
You've nailed it, LE.
"Dominic hasn't answered yet in regard to nationality or allegiance."
(cricket-watch)
Do either of you two know anything about this?
Helping Iran, helping Hamas, not recognizing Isreal, convorting with Bin Laden all good reasons not to trust them.
:-)
You guys are too funny.
I did answer this once -- in 192.
You guys are so wrong about me, it puts the rest of your opinions in an interesting light.
If you read back over my history of posts, you'd find out I'm not a "free trader" (traitor is *such* a silly word!). I'm *not* a bush-bot by a long-shot.
I just have a simple, clear opinion -- for me, I would like to see some real, solid evidence to suggest that UAE is a risk to us before declaring them to be a terrorist-sponsoring state.
Ya'lls reaction to my simple question says a lot about your side. I would have expected a lot of ya'll to understand, but explain to me why in your opinion, it was too dangerous to wait for what I'm looking for.
Instead, I've gotten name-calling, and people who seem to think that my quest for evidence is stupid. And ya'll, who actually question my nationality!?! Now *that* is a stupid line of argument, forgive me for pointing out.
Something I *never* would have expected from FR.
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