Posted on 03/14/2006 9:42:59 PM PST by SUSSA
For the Neo-isolationists, HERE is what we are up to in Iraq.
Counter Insurgency is a strange bastard style of war. It is not total war but it is also more then the Leftist" Police matter". The other thing most old Cast Iron Conservatives forget is the political aspect. Iraq was doable. We had the political consensus to do it. So since we needed a kill zone we could suck the terrorists into and we needed to get the American people to support the cost, there was no other choice BUT Iraq.
Want to really blow the Leftists minds? Tell them this. Even if Al Gore won in 2000 and 9-11 happened the USA would STILL be doing the same thing now in Iraq. Iraq was doable militarily and politically. There was no other place for the US to go. Iraq is basically the same deal as the invasions of Italy was in 1943
Here in a nutshell, is the MILTIARY reason for Iraq. The War on Terrorism is different sort of war. In the war on Terrorism, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone. Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The "Holy" soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is hostile to guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).
There are other reasons to do Iraq but that is the MILITARY reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.
Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. I often worry that the American people have neither the maturity, nor the intellect" to understand. It's so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like "No Blood for Oil" or "We support the Troops, bring them home" then to actually THINK. Problem is these people have NO desire to co-exist with us. They see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. They think their "god" will bless them for killing Westerners.
Ah, I misunderstood your posts.
Obviously there isn't. Not with madrassas worldwide churning them out as fast as we kill them.
I actually believe that, though unplanned, the insurgency was a theatre action conducted by the enemy. History is going to be kind to Mr. Bush. We may have wanted to come home sooner, but for the fact that we did not, we eventually destroyed Al Qaeda, precipitated the surrender of Libya, and probably fomented the necessary amount of rebellion in Iran to overthrow the Mullahs.
Where did I insult the folks who’ve been there? Do you think the occupation was well planned? Do you think the military brass or civilian brass planned to still be taking casualties at the rate we’re taking them 3 years after the war ended?
Also, this is nothing like Vietnam. We never invaded North Vietnam, never overthrew the government, never disbanded their military and police, and never set up a new government. We didn’t occupy a defeated North Vietnam.
Compare Iraq to WWII and compare the 10 battle deaths we had in the whole year of 1946 in every theatre, to the battle deaths we’re taking in a country the size of California. Do you really think the military or civilian brass planned this?
I submit to you that someone made a big mistake in the planning for the occupation and it wasn’t the GIs over there getting blown up. I submit to you it was some of those politicians you have little patience with
I'll put it in plain english for them. We are going to keep killing the mother fu#$ers until the rest realize that screwing with Uncle Sam gets you sore, bloody or dead. Anyone can not deal, get the FUC% out of the way.
With the exception that when the Cronkite's of today tell us we are losing, the majority of Americans don't believe their BS. Even when the LIB media tells us that we do believe them we still don't. IMO, those of us who were born after Viet Nam, see that war for what it really was and won't allow it to happen again.
My greatest fear is that you are wrong.
The VC were finished after TET, but it NEVER made the MSM. What is happening in Iraq that`s positive, isn`t being reported and that concerns old guys like me.
"Top people [were] saying they should plan for a strong resistance."
My son served in Gulf War I with an elite unit and was there from August 1990 to April 1991. His unit entered Iraq 2 days before the "official" ground war start. Shortly before we invaded in 2003 I asked him how many troops he thought we should have. He said 450,000. Looks like he and the other pessimists were right. He had continued in the reserve, and then went back into active service. He is now in Afghanistan.
I recently made a FR post composed of some of his recent emails formatted as an "interview". It is titled "Front Line Views on Iraq/Afghanistan War Situation" 3/12/06, if you want to check it out. A lot of what he says concerns Afghanistan, not Iraq.
Me too. But really, it's always the same people saying it's a mess and I just don't think the American people are buying it. A lot of us went to schools that had leftist history teachers who tried to teach us their versions of Viet Nam, but most of us saw it for what it was, US Soldiers never losing a battle, POW's being tortured for 6-7 years and never betraying their honor, and a bunch of long haired, pot smoking hippies spitting on honorable men who fought for their right to protest. We saw no glory in John Kerry lying to Congress, Jane Fonda helping the enemy, and draft dodgers running to Canada. We see the world through the eyes of Reagan and we remember when he said, "no one will kill Americans and get away with it". But most of all we see the honor and sacrifice of the Viet Nam Vets and the dishonor of the way our parent's generation treated them and most of us will never allow that to happen on our watch.
Thanks I'll find it and read it. When does he come home?
At that point, they were still convinced that we'd be slaughterd by Saddams Super Secret Special Republican Guard (+5)
There is still a big gap, especially in the Army, between the conventional types and the unconventional types.
The first counterinsurgency field manual in 30 years is about to be published. After VN the military reverted to the "Big War" scenario. This attitude was helped by the lack of real strategic planning during the 90's.
Check how many of the Army's current GOs have SOF experience as compared to the 90's. The COS is SOF, COMCENTCOM is SOF. Even the Marine EUCOM Commander is from Recon.
Rumfeld is as fallible as anyone, but he took over a Pentagon mired in the 80's.
Of course they knew, BBB. It was part of the idea. Concentrate the nutbergers from all over Islamia in one place, preferably not Peoria, and take'em out.
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