FOX says Milosevic is dead....

[Proctor]

Why is it odd? Is there a waiting period for posting?

The Serbian people, unlike the Croats or Muslims never accepted Nazi rule.

[wardaddy]

I just love a good Bosnian thread, don't you?

just feel the love...lol


nice link.

[Proctor]

You know I found many internationalist UN lovers on here like you who love the UN and the UN court like you do it seems.

Will you and your clique start singing the 'Internationale' next?

[Proctor]

The Albanians became a majority by no later 1900, and it stayed that way.

According to your link, that is not fact but an assertion of a famous British journalist H. Brailsford (a communist no less) based on his estimated that two-thirds of the population of Kosovo was Albanian and one-third Serbian.

A primary document (again from your source) from that period (not the estimation of a biased journalist who has an agenda) being the Map of Alfred Stead[, published in 1909, shows that similar numbers of Serbs and Albanians were living in the territory. That is 50-50.

German scholar Gustav Weigand's results listed on Wikipedia are not for all of Kosovo (Wikipedia's problem is that its facts can be biased and skewed).

Lastly, I hope demographics are never a basis for declaring secession if so bye-bye Southwest USA.

[Proctor]

With the exception of the Bonsnian Muslim Izetbegovic who was a member of the local Nazi and Muslim league fanatics (he was a fundamentalist Muslim who practiced polygamy) all the leaders of the former Yugoslavia were part of the Communist party.

What does Putin have to do with all of this?

[wardaddy]

I hope demographics are never a basis for declaring secession

Proctor, you should review world history, aside from resource demands....demographics are the most common cause for any territorial conflict.

This new notion that race, religion, creed etc should not matter in diversity rich civilizations is a Pollyanna notion and has zero precedence.

It's messianic.

History is littered with precisely how much demographics count with any society that comes in conflict with Islam and the Balkans have been the route of choice for European expansion in that insidious hegemony for a thousand years and those living there know that all too well.

[Proctor]

Probably true. But your argument leads to the logical conclusion of social Darwinism because it forces the majority population to slam down on the minority one to prevent them from reproducing.

I am a fan of autonomy and that is the direction Kosovo should be pushed into - not 'independence' because if you are a student of history you will know that Kosovo is not viable and will create problems with Albania and other Balkan nations. We want to limit the 'Balkanization' of the Balkans not create more jigsaw puzzles on that map.

[Al Simmons]

I agree there. But had Slobo not done what he did in '89, the whole situation might have been resolved peacefully with a partition (the Serbs keeping the Monasteries and other 'sacred' lands. Now they have nothing thanks to Slobo - and the 'Toon...

[Al Simmons]

I ain't carrying nobody's water, mac. I hate the International and UN Courts as much as you do. Slobo should have been tried in SERBIA and imprisoned there....

[Proctor]

You have an upside down world view.

You support the communist inspired notion of an international criminal court? A UN court? That diminishes national sovereignty and imposes a UN Court over the laws of other nations?

What you are, M. Espinola is communism's (in the guise of a UN world court) useful idiot.

Milosevic was a member of the Socialist party - Blair is a Socialist as well. Most of Blair's Labour party are as red as they come.

No one argued that Milosevic is an innocent man. Only that the UN should have no authority over him. He should have been placed on trial in Serbia by Serbs.

There was a reason Saddam was handed over to an Iraqi court. That is conservatism.

Any American who supports the notion of a UN Court - even one that puts on trial people like Milosevic is a traitor.

[Al Simmons]

God don't start that sh*t. Learn some history firts!

Serbs made up a majority of the partisan soldiers - though not of the partisan leadership - (Serbs were also Chetnik royalists) these were the only two groups fighting the Krauts in Yugoslavia in WWII (Chetniks at the beginning of the war, then they stopped to avert reprisal massacres against civilians, the communists the entire war.) Croats and Muslims were mostly collaborators....

[Proctor]

That is wishful thinking.

The KLA would have stopped at that? Is Israel more secure or less negotiating with terrorists?

Russia gave Chechnya de facto independence and the Chechens invaded Dagestan a few years later.

Wishful thinking but in reality the Albanians would have continued their hit and run attacks on Serb villages (as they still do under NATO occupation) on a larger scale and the Serbs would counter attack them and the international community would still slam the Serbs for defending themselves.

[Al Simmons]

Look mac. The fact that the Albanians were terrorizing Serbs for decades and that they are the hub of organized crime in Europe does not change the fact that Slobo was a communists who destroyed his country for his own personal gain.

As far as the Albanians go, Slobo never tried expelling them all of ALbania and the world would not have allowed it. Therefore a negotiated solution was the only solution that would have preserved the Serbs heritage there. With Albanians making up 90% of the population there, it didn't take a rocket scientists to figure out whose side the historically ignorant CNNUNNATO would have been on.

But Slobo didn't care because (like the 'Toon), it WAS ALL ABOUT HIM, NOT ABOUT HIS NATION.

[A. Pole]

I am a fan of autonomy and that is the direction Kosovo should be pushed into - not 'independence' because if you are a student of history you will know that Kosovo is not viable and will create problems with Albania and other Balkan nations.

The reason why Albanian Muslims value Kosovo is that they instinctively feel that there must be something very precious about it since Serbs want it so much.

But once Albanians grab it for good, expel all Serbs and Gypsies, destroy monasteries and churches then it will become a desolate hopeless backwater not better than any other remote part of Albania.

Then they will be very confused where all this mystique is gone and they will migrate into greener pastures of welfare state in Western Europe.

Then the Serbs will be able to return and rebuild their holy places. :)

[A. Pole]

Islam in Bosnia was of Turkish (ie. Ottoman) stock, in other words, generally as moderate and seculare as it gets.

You are confusing the fascist, secular and genocidal regime of Ataturk with the earlier Ottomans. Ottomans were not secular at all.

[A. Pole]

Slobo was a communists who destroyed his country for his own personal gain.

What could have he done?

Therefore a negotiated solution was the only solution that would have preserved the Serbs heritage there.

He did try. That is why Western media and government sabotaged his negotiations with Rugova.

[Proctor]

The Bosnian leadership was Wahhabist and NOT of the Turkish mode. The fanatic Muslims ruled over the moderate Muslims.

You know this as well so don't bugger me with BS.

[wardaddy]

You're unrealistic and ignoring history but well meaning I'm sure. It's not a bad thing to wish for human nature to change but it scares me a bit if that holds even in the face of Islam and it's frequent desire to impose itself...not that I'm saying that fully explains the Balkans....much more to it than that admittedly.


The Albanian birthrate will win out militarily by default baring cataclysm...
I was idealistic too in my teens and early 20s.

I even voted for Jimmah in 76.....man...is that embarassing huh?

Have a good Sunday afternoon!