Why is the Pakistan army scared of this man?

Mohammad Shehzad ^

[thebaron512]

Carpet bombing might do wonders in removing these people from their hide-outs.

[MplsSteve]

This guy is seriously in need of a visit by a Predator drone!

[CondorFlight]

Pakistan is in the same relationship to its Northwest frontier regions as England was to Scotland in the 1740s.

The tribes control the region. It would require a major military campaign to end the tribal control and lifestyle
and integrate the tribes into the nominal life of Pakistan.

This is what England undertook to do to Scotland after 1745, and it wasn't easy. (They forbade the wearing of the kilt--a tribal designation--the playing of bagpipes, etc.)
They were successful; the Scots became members of a larger nation instead of members of their invdividual clans.

Someone has to do now this with the Pathans, etc., and I wish Pakistan luck.

[Chgogal]

((((Ping))))

Your thoughts and comments would be welcome.

[Prysson]

so what they are saying is that the Taliban and Al Queda basically have once agin establish a safe haven and noone seems wiling or able to do anythign about going in and cleaning them out.

Great.

[Dyaus Pitar]

Yes the situation is somewhat similar. However Pakhtun tribe (Pathan/Afghan tribes) are way larger in number, span over vast territories (Iran, Balochistan, NWFP & Afghanistan) and have easy and cheap access to arms & ammunition (Soviet War era).

If the Pakistani Army start a war on these tribes, 40% of Pakistan Army will revolt as it is Pakhtun. Much of the Pakistani army is pathan. Much of the Pakistani establishment is pathan. Pakistan could never start a war on them. It would internally collapse.

[Dyaus Pitar]

That wouldn't be correct. Civilized pathans are great people. Even purely tribal pathans are trustworthy. However the islamic wahibbi jehadi pathans are the problem. And to be honest, if you are islamic jehadi wahhibbi then it doesn't matter if your are pathan or not, you would need to be bombed anyway.

The talibanization of Pakhtunwa started in the 1970's under the Pakistani military dictator Zia Ul Haq. After the 71 defeat to India and loss of Bangladesh, Zia used radical islam to "bond" the nation. Resultant tribal people in NWFP became the 'taliban'.

Money was poured in by the US during the Soviet War, and because of the Pakistan Army's 'incest' with Jehadi Islam, much of this mess got created.

The monster had an ideological backing ... Jehadi Islam. Much of the Pakistani Army even today is jehadi. Much more so than these tribals. The real challenge is defeating this ideology without resorting to genocide (mass carpet bombings).

[ketelone]

"Civilized pathans are great people"

You're applying a morally relatavistic standard here.

A pathans idea of civilisation and yours may be quite different. They live by their own code, and though it is a code that can be respected, it isnt one that would hold in many western societies.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

May as well bombard the Rocky Mountains.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

The Taliban are a Pashtun movement. Over on the Afghan side there are other Anti-Coalition Militias and Non-Compliant Forces that often get lumped in with the Taliban, but 99% of the Taliban is Pashtun. The Pashtuns on the Afghan side are pretty well sick of the Taliban. There is an unreported success story in Afghanistan of Pashtuns working together with other ethnic groups and the Coalition and beginning to see themselves as nationalists instead of tribesmen. There are Pashtuns in Afghanistan who will dime out Taliban.

Things are different over on the Pak side. Pakistan is a failed state with nukes. Pakistan is less a nation-state and more a reservation for Muslims who can't live in peace with Hindus. You have Muslim anglicized emigrant mohajirs lording it over Punjabis, Sindhis, Sikhs, Balochis, Kashmiris and Pashtuns, maintaining themselves by military dictatorship, holding several tigers by the tail for dear life. It will be messy when they lose their grip.

Islamabad never ruled in Pashtunistan. Not even as much as Delhi ever did.

All these reports of major battles between the Pak Army and Taliban are a lot of look-see pidgin for the benifit of dumb foreigners.

Bush, Karzai (himself a Pashtun), Mushareff and Abizaid all know it. America puts up with Mushy's crap because living with him is easier than living with the consequences of his departure. We have an army to support in Afghanistan.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Pakhtunwali

[Chgogal]

Darn right we do! :)

Here are "my boys" in action! :) They, as well you are awesome Americans, Connoneer No. 4. Ping everyone you know and let them know the miracles you pull off each and every day!

http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=4571734

And the 10th Mountain Division has now arrived!

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?article=35382&section=104

[Cannoneer No. 4]

And so have the Canadians.

[Chgogal]

And a French SF! :)

[Cannoneer No. 4]

French special forces officer killed in Afghanistan

[Chgogal]

His name has not yet been released. His home town - Commune of Arue, Tahiti. It will be a difficult time for his family.

Hopefully this will not be all for naught, only time will tell.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

It will all be for naught if America retreats from the world in fear of Muslims. Every foreign army that has come to Afghanistan has come to grief. This time might be different. Failure would be disastrous.

[Marine_Uncle]

Of course you know what my standard cry shall be. Yet again. They serve with HONOR. And may the good Lord keep his hand over them as they serve and bring them home whole in body and spirit, to these blessed shores. Quite informative article.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Pashtuns form the largest tribal society in the Islamic world. They view themselves as the natural leaders of Afghanistan, and despise peoples like the Hazara as a sort of underclass. Their relations with one another are dominated by a tribal code called pashtunwali, which values above all honour, hospitality, loyalty, bravery, revenge, and fierce individualism. This code has some pretty inexplicable facets - it is perfectly acceptable under pashtunwali, for example, to change sides in the middle of a battle for a bribe. You don’t have to understand it, but if you are doing business here you have to deal with it.

Pashtuns are hardly monolithic either. One is not simply a Pashtun, one is a Durrani or a Ghilzai; and one is not simply a Ghilzai or a Durrani, one is a Popolzai or a Barakzai or an Alikozai or an Ishaqzai Durrani Pashtun, or a member of one of dozens of other tribes. It doesn’t end there; families come next. And it is a vast understatement to call the interrelationships complex. Don’t try building a road through a Barakzai area using Alikozai labour, unless the Barakzai of that area have just concluded an agreement with the Alikozai families. And be prepared for it all to go pear-shaped in a heartbeat, for reasons you will never fully understand.

As the Pashtuns say: I against my brother - I and my cousin against the world.