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Freeper Research Project: Summary of Replies to "How does it all end?"
Initial Survey Thread ^ | March 9, 2006 | Alamo-Girl

Posted on 03/08/2006 10:41:55 PM PST by Alamo-Girl

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If you'd like to be listed in the survey please post which of the above most closely describes your view – or barring that, the Freeper whose views above most closely describe yours. Or if that doesn't work, then post your view - but please, oh please, keep it brief.

And please remember this is not a thread to discuss theology or scientific theories.

If you wish to argue for or against any particular belief system please take it up somewhere on the Religion Forum. This is just a survey!

1 posted on 03/08/2006 10:42:04 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Cap Huff; William Creel; Domestic Church; Will_Zurmacht; AntiGuv; fr_freak; PAR35; The Toll; ...
Please check the above to see if I have you listed (or not) correctly - and let me know what needs to be changed. Thank you!!!
2 posted on 03/08/2006 10:42:37 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thanks for posting this interesting survey. Out of all of the end of the world beliefs I've come across, I find myself in agreement with the Baha'is. The Baha'i faith, in my limited understanding, would say that the Messiah of all the religions has already come and gone in the person of Baha'ullah. Most of us have been too self-absorbed or blind to notice. The tribulations mentioned in the Bible, surrounding the Twelfth Imam, and other apoloyptic beliefs describe the last century and how it will be considered by future generations. God continues to send us messages and prophets appropriate for our era and spiritual maturity (which appears to mean that someday the Baha'is will also be supplanted by another revelation). What I find most interesting is that adoption of the Baha'i faith by the world's Moslems - both religions have superficial similarities, especially in the form of worship (not in the application, though) - would seem to allow Moslems a way to find a Reformation-like entry into the modern world. Certainly a Middle East filled with Baha'is would be far different world.

Just my two cents. I guess that means the world never ends; we keep learning.


3 posted on 03/08/2006 10:54:26 PM PST by redpoll (redpoll)
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To: Alamo-Girl
AG --

Are you cross refrencing this with the other survey you did? That would make for some interesting reading.
4 posted on 03/08/2006 10:56:33 PM PST by birbear (You know what? This is crap. We're going to stop this.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Close enough for me.

Though I have also suspected that there might be more than 1 or 2 'raptures.'

If I understand right, you hold to that perspective. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that true.

Where does that leave me? . . .

At the moment . . .

60% believe in Pre-trib.

100% believe in Pre-wrath in the sense that The Scripture is clear about God's kids "not appointed unto wrath."

I suspect the church will see more of at least the birth pangs and possibly parts of Tribulation than many suspect. But I don't know that I believe that most or all of the church will see most of Tribulation.

I suspect I believe 70-80% that those who Believe before Tribulation will go up then and others along the way but before the WRATH-FULL last 3.5 years.

But I don't really think any of us have it all figured out yet.


5 posted on 03/08/2006 10:57:16 PM PST by Quix (GOD IS LOVE and full of mercy HE IS ALSO JUST & fiercely HOLY. Groups choosing death can reap it)
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To: redpoll

Thank you for sharing!


6 posted on 03/08/2006 10:59:41 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

A good work.. Interesting to know what some freepers think.. or don't think about these matters.. Oh! to be on a freeper cruise discussing these matters and more.. Discussing with the "choir" is so limiting.. Discussing any subject with freepers is like herding cats.. and not all are domesticated..


7 posted on 03/08/2006 11:00:20 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: birbear
It would be interesting, but there were many more responses to the personality survey than to this one.
8 posted on 03/08/2006 11:01:50 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Quix
Though I have also suspected that there might be more than 1 or 2 'raptures.' If I understand right, you hold to that perspective. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that true.

Indeed. That's why I'm listed under "Partial Rapture".
9 posted on 03/08/2006 11:05:04 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: hosepipe

LOLOL! It may be like herding cats, but it is great fun, very informative and on spiritual matters - a chapel.


10 posted on 03/08/2006 11:10:08 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

I'm not sure I quite make out the distinction between historical and dispensational premill...but I'm surely one or the other. I don't see how any other view can put together the descriptions in Matthew and Revelation into a cohesive whole.


11 posted on 03/08/2006 11:14:34 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
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To: hosepipe
and not all are domesticated.. You noticed? Oh, dear! Guess that even that litter for multiple cats isn't quite up to the task. Or is it all the noisey caterwalling? LOL.
12 posted on 03/08/2006 11:16:00 PM PST by Quix (GOD IS LOVE and full of mercy HE IS ALSO JUST & fiercely HOLY. Groups choosing death can reap it)
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To: Old_Mil

I can list you in both!


13 posted on 03/08/2006 11:16:16 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
You can list me in the Pre-wrath list, but I'd point out that the defintion listed is pretty faulty.

Pre-wrath Rapture: That the church must experience most of the Tribulation, and then be raptured towards the end of the Tribulation period.

This definition is riddled with pretrib terminology through and through. The Pre-wrath view doesn't normally refer to the 70th week as "the tribulation"...that is a pretrib view.

Perhaps a more accurate description might read...the prewrath view believes the church will go through the Great Tribulation and will be raptured between the end of that event but before the beginning of God's wrath. Jesus taught that the Great Tribulation begins after the middle of the 70th week, so the rapture would occur at some point in the second half of the 70th week.

14 posted on 03/08/2006 11:58:10 PM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: highlander_UW

Thank you for the explanation and for sharing!


15 posted on 03/09/2006 12:00:14 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
So it's too late for me to vote for either a bang or a whimper?

L

16 posted on 03/09/2006 12:03:04 AM PST by Lurker (Cuz I got one hand in my pocket and the other one is slapping a hippy.)
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To: Lurker

Not at all, Lurker! This is just the first summary of the results. There will be more.


17 posted on 03/09/2006 12:04:39 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I apologize for not getting back to your question at this post on the other thread

Indeed. What is the Deist view of "How it all ends?"

Thomas Paine wrote in 'Age of Reason' that "I trouble not myself about the manner of future existence. I content myself with believing, even to positive conviction, that the power that gave me existence is able to continue it in any form and manner he pleases, either with or without this body".

He also wrote ""Were man impressed as fully and as strongly as he ought to be with the belief of a God, his moral life would be regulated by the force of that belief; he would stand in awe of God and of himself, and would not do the thing that could not be concealed from either. ... This is Deism."

Paine was a classic Deist. He explained his belief as well as it can be explained when he said...""We believe in the existence of a God, and in the immortality of the soul."

So I guess my answer is that it really never ends.

18 posted on 03/09/2006 12:12:49 AM PST by KDD (A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

My pleasure...pretty amazing how many views can arise from pretty much the same set of sources, isn't it?


19 posted on 03/09/2006 12:18:09 AM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Man, I just can't seem to get it right. There is no post-mill Armageddon. Armagedon is post-TRIB PRE-mill. Its the final battle where ALL the armies of the world are arrayed against Israel, and if but for the second second-coming of Christ, all life on the planet would be destroyed. I got confused with what happens at the end of the Millenial Reign of Christ (when the lizard is let out of the pit). That is not Armageddon though. Now, I should just stop right there, BUT, it gets better. And I make no appology for the lack of brevity with respect to the following (the stakes are just too plain high).

After Christ's second second-coming there's a precise 75 day period of judgement against all people and nations present on the earth at the time (roughly about 1/5 of what are present now). Only those judged righteous by Christ are allowed to enter the Millenial Kingdom (the rest go straight to Hell). The righteous who enter the Millenial Kingdom are normal humans in every sense (even procreating), however there will be no open rebellion against Christ (even so based on the sin nature of their unglorified bodies there will be sin in people's hearts). However, the Old Testament saints, and those Raptured at the first second-coming, will have glorified bodies and will not procreate (nor will there be any sin in their hearts).

Just to be clear: the first second-coming of Christ is at the Rapture of the Church; the living and dead saints, i.e., those living at the time who are in the Church meeting Him in the clouds with glorified bodies (and the dead saints - who were in the Church while they lived - and are already present with Christ in the clouds will be united with their glorified bodies).

It is at the second second-coming of Christ that the Old Testament saints, and the martyrs during the Tribulation are united with their glorified bodies. This is known as the first resurrection. Some of the saints present will be wearing crowns already bestowed during the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ prior to the Marriage of the Lamb (there are 5 crowns that will be awarded). None of those present at the Bema seat will lose salvation, but they may lose some (or all) reward. All the Tribulation martyrs will be awarded Martyr's Crowns (and perhaps others too). While the Tribulation is occuring on Earth, the Bema Seat, and the Marriage of the Lamb occurs simultaneously in the heavens. This occurs not in Heaven but some other spiritual plane (the clouds). The witnesses to the Marriage will be the Old Testament saints in their spiritual bodies. Then the Bride (The Church) is brought back to the Earth by Christ, and the Bride is presented to Christ's friends. Who are Christ's friends? Those judged righteous at the end of the Tribulation and the Tribulation martyrs.

The entire period from Rapture to Millenial Kingdom is known as The Second Coming. The entire Tribulation period begining with the signing of the covenant by the Beast and ending with Armageddon is known as The Tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years is known as The Great Tribulation (as stated by Christ), or as the Time of Jacob's Troubles (as foretold by Danial).

It is at the losing of that great lizard (Beelzebub) from the pit, that outright rebellion against Christ occurs at the end of His millenial reign. All those who yield to the lizard are zotted. The number of people alive at the end of the Millenial Kingdom are as the grains of sands on a beach. It is at this point that the second resurrection occurs. This is where all those that are in Hell are united with some sort of body (what kind of body? I don't know, but its not glorifed). Suffice it to say that this body will be sufficiently equiped to endure eternal torment in The Lake of Fire. This is known as the second resurrection. These people will be joining the Beast (the Anti-Christ) and the False Prophet who are already in the Lake of Fire. At some point the most heinous of the angels who rebelled against The Lord prior to The Fall of Man (if they're not there already) will greet them. The Lake of Fire was not created for Man (it was created for the fallen angels). I pity the person who is headed for the Lake of Fire. Hell is nothing compared to that place. The other thing one has to keep in mind: even so it is a Lake of Fire, the environment is one of total, absolute and utter pitch black and infinite seperation from God (and anything about Him). I shudder to think about it.

Nevertheless, the Book of Life will be opened, and each individual will be judged by their works, will be found lacking and wanting, and cast into the Lake of Fire. It is after this that This is known as The Day of the Lord. The heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with a great heat and the works therein will be burned up (the heavens being on fire will be dissolved and the very elements themselves with fervent heat). At this point a new heaven, Earth and Jerusalem will be created. This will be the beginning of paradise in Eternity.

Eternity is kind of hard to understand. Here's a good way to grasp eternity: imagine a string tied from the Earth to the Moon. Imagine an ant crawling along that string (back and forth as long as necessary), carrying one granula of the Earth on its back each trip and depositing said granula onto the moon. Finally it goes back and raveals up the string. When its done with that chore: precisely one second of eternity has elapsed.

One should be absolutely certain where they're going. And if they don't know, they better start looking into it. Anybody who has other ideas, or doesn't have any idea, has either not seriously looked into it, or they don't want to. In any event, they're going to end up paying (and for a long time too). And the biggest kicker of the whole deal? For all eternity they're going to hate themselves for being so stupid.

All the foregoing (including my original statement) is known as classical fundamental pre-mill trib pre-trib rapture dispenstational eschatology.

Verily, verily I tell you, He that believeth on me shall have everlasting life - John 6:47

20 posted on 03/09/2006 12:57:27 AM PST by raygun
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