Posted on 02/28/2006 8:58:32 PM PST by bayourant
Solutions are easy. First you have to identify/recognize a problem and Bush has indicated the opposite, which is why I don't trust him entirely on the port stuff.
Economically and superficially I have no problem with the DPW port deal. But, and call me skeptical, I just don't trust muslim nations. They call it an "Arab" country. But allow me to ask, if port operations in this country had been bought by a German firm in the late '30s or early '40s that had as it's employees/owners/etc. Nazis, would we have supported it?
Some will argue that there's a big difference. I just don't see it. The UAW is muslim and that's a fact. I'm sure that most of not all of DPW's employees are muslim too. How many times do we have to be bitten in the ass by muslims acting independently or as nations, often after getting fooled for a decade or more, before we figure things out?
We just don't know what these people are up to in their backroom discussions. But all of a sudden, on this issue, they're all 100% sincere and 100% trustworthy. Well, OK. I'll stand in the minority there.
The other side of it is that we need them in the WOT. Well, perhaps so. But as I see it, it's quite a bit of "dancing with the devil" as it were. I'm sure there are things that can be gained by an alliance of sorts with the UAE, and no doubt their assistance and land/port use is valuable.
But they have interests in that too. They know all too well how volatile their region is and we are security for them through that. So for anyone to think that "they'd kick us out," that's a joke. Any rumors of stuff like that occurring is just them playing us for fools.
But you know what, at some point, just as WWII began, the sides in this WOT are gonna clear up substantially, likely after we could have done some things to mitigate it.
I think that then entire ports strategy needs to be reevaluated.
Pardon me, UAE, not UAW...
LOL
bump
2 years after Bush got elected I quit voting Republican.
BTW, what was the formal "state sponsored" reaction to the "muslim cartoon" issue?
I think that would speak volumes as to their true motives.
Well, when CBS is running the polls, and CNN, NBC all jump on the bandwagon, are you really surprised?
I shudder to think what this country would be like without talk radio and the interent.
Shades of Kronkite........egads.
This is what world-class journalism (writing ) looks like -- and why China and India will rise.
The level of thinking is powerful and clear -- unlike the sorry example of thinking offered by the United States mainstream press -- that is totally puerile and dysfunctional. That's where America has fallen behind the most as a global competitor and why the newspapers (mainstream media) are failing. They're pure crap and worthless.
Well I guess this is the thing. We have to deal with Muslims. There 1.2 billion of them and there is no way around it. One reason I am comfortable with the UAE is their outlook. I know its important to be post 911 but to often we forget the history of pre 911. This country has pretty much as we now know it been around since 1971 in its current state. I had a conversation with my Grand father today and he was telling from his AF days how big a ally they were during the Cold War. Outside Israel it would seem that this is our biggest friend over there. If the economy of the UAE is tied to the health of the Western World UAE doesnt have a reason to participate in an attack against us is my view
IN the end chances are going to have to be taken. We can not just say their muslim so no dice. Its really an impossibility in the long run. Esp with the UAE since it appears there is a possibillty that could rank among Singapore and HOng kong as spheres of influence in the future. In fact they might be there. I mean it went from nothing to a paradise overnight. Incredible. This in an area that is not known at all for innovation. I guess my view is its time to bite the bullet on this. Commercial inducements are a big weapon in the long run on the wot. If we veto this because there muslim thats going to be noticed and could be disatrious.
I shudder to think what this country would be like without talk radio and the interent.
Shades of Kronkite........egads.
No, obviously not surprise.
You answered your own curiosity however. Are you young?
Up until the late '80s (Rush) and the mid-90s (internet), this country was "without talk radio and the interent." The liberal media dominated "truth" to a large extent, practically speaking. It was a horror. I remember reading National Review hard copy b/c Gore hadn't invented the internet yet, :D, and I just remember having to wait for issues to get "real" news. I and my conservative friends and family members used to get utterly PO'd at how the lib media got away with that crap.
So you don't have to go back too far to wonder how it was. IMO the three MSM network news channels will be all but out of business within a decade. The only ones that watch them anymore are babyboomers and primarily the older ones. Many of them are afraid to use a microwave oven or a PC. So...
They were propaganda outlets, nothing more.
Well, there were no violent protest in the UAE I heard about. I am sure they are following the arab leauge tone on wanting apologies. That doesnt bother me really that they asked for it to think it wouldnt happen as to Islam I couldnt see happening. But sure some people were protesting but nothing violent so thats cool.
I have less a problem with the DPW ports deal than I do with the overall proliferation of Islam. Muslims, of all nations, have only proven their sheer and utter intolerance for the religions of others. It cannot be any more clear in the Koran that they have no intention with "living in harmony" with people that do not except their "religious" views, which are really more socio-political views.
Either way, Islam has a very identifiable track record of misery, death, and destruction in one form or another. The problems are being created by allowing it to spread to civilized societies that are tolerant, thereby setting themselves up for either something tantamount to a civil war, or domination and oppression. There really aren't too many ways around that.
Some Freepers and posters will jump all over that, but IMO they are people that seem to not think that this country can change drastically as if civilizations, governments, and societies haven't changed themselves, for better or worse on a continual cycle, for as long as the earth and human kind has been around.
We're setting ourselves up for problems there. Islam has no intention of "living in harmony" with anyone but other muslims. Even that has to be questioned.
If that's true, then it's a data point!
IMO the DPW "deal" is not the problem per se, but rather a symptom of a greater problem. Ever since 9/11 all we've heard about is how the "ports are the weak link in the WOT." Now, they're all of a sudden "fixed." Sure.
Well I dont expect the UAE to suddenally publish the cartoons in their papers. I can see how muslims were offended. The point was how that outrage was played out. In my view this was used by Govt to get the bad news off their front pages. IN fact it appears Saudi Arabi that really started the ball rolling on this did it to get the fact that their incompetence at handling crowds got 345 people killed at mecca. Evid that was becoming quite a issue. Well the jennie got out of the bottle and other govts saw hey lets get our problems off the public mind and their it went
This thing was alot more orchastrated than people think. Well at the end of the day there was a crisis etc and after a few weeks the Arab Govts are going through the motions to reverse this stuff while saving face.
The whole cartoon thing is a distraction. Hopefully, people at the State Dept willcatch something like this early on next time and tell them its a extremly bad idea
The point being the UAE guy went yeah the cartoons were horrible. People protested some and got back to work.
UAE Minister of Justice and Islamic Affairs has strongly condemned some Danish and Norwegian newspapers for publishing blasphemous cartoons.
Minister Mohammad Al Dhaheri dismissed the publication of cartoons appearing in the Danish Jyllands-Posten last September, and republished by a Norwegian newspaper as “disgusting and irresponsible”.
Noting a rising wave of anti-Islam sentiments, the minister said these sentiments serve only to undermine the very principles heralded by the divine religions and adopted by international organisations.
Referring to the cartoons, Al Dhaheri said “this is cultural terrorism ... not freedom of expression. The repercussions of such irresponsible acts will have adverse impact on international relations.”
The minister called for applying deterrent international legal measures against such desecrating acts. He urged governments and civic organisations to protect religious symbols against violation.
So you see, those thinking that "the UAE is just like us" are drastically mistaken!!!
http://www.economist.com/cities/briefing.cfm?city_id=DUB
Mohammad Nakhira al-Daheri, the UAE's minister for justice and religious affairs, characterised the cartoons as “cultural extremism”. A number of prominent UAE supermarkets, including Carrefour, a French chain, removed Danish goods from their shelves as part of an unofficial boycott. UAE nationals and Muslim expatriates also staged a number of peaceful protests against Denmark.
But the UAE's response to the matter has been notable for its moderation: the boycott has clear limits, revealing Dubai’s liberal approach towards trading partners, and the street protests were subdued relative to those in other Arab countries.
They may have been "more subdued," but that's like saying that a military response was "more subdued" than Fat Man and Little Boy laying out Nagasaki and Hiroshima. It also reveals their "true" colors in where they truly stand. But no one cares!
Dubai: A UAE lawyer is suing the Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten for defaming Islam.
http://www.gulfnews.com/indepth/danishcontroversy/more_stories/10015190.html
So while no one wants to know these things, they are relevant. As well, where is the support for freedom of expression? For tolerance of others (non-muslim) beliefs by UAE/Dubai???
Their philosophies are much different than we think. There may be economic synergies, but that's been the case throughout human history with philosophical differences often breaching and torpedoing the healthiest and most productive economic arrangements!
There are 300 Million of us. We've got them outnumbered.
As to the ports it seems the UAE has been on the forfront of this new security stuff. I suppose its a two way street. Through this we can prob get people into more locations of where they own ports in the World. That would be a good thing since I am more concerned about the entry point myself
Let's face facts here, those cartoons were entirely benign, at least the original ones. If the muslim world hadn't had a Hitleresque tantrum then the rest never would have surfaced.
I can see how the muslims were offended too. But I've been given a hell of a lot more reason to be offended in my Christian faith, and LOTS of that has to do with muslim doings, and yet you don't see me or other Christians lining up to do what they did.
You say that the whole thing was a lot more orchestrated than we think. Why do you think that is?
I agree, although I wouldn't say that it was "specifically" orchestrated. What is orchestrated is opportunities for world wide upheaval, chaos, riots, etc. with Islam merely "looking for an excuse" ala the LA Riots not too many years ago.
The more we cater to this crap, about "not offending them," the more it's gonna happen. It's just a different form of terrorism, nothing more!
"tThe thing was a distraction" politically, but societally and prophetically, it's merely a harbinger of things to come as Islam spreads throughout the free/westernized world!!!
Meanwhile, you're making excuses for the UAE foreign minister. He could have made his statements a lot more "US friendly" while still making his (the UAE's) statement clearly.
HEy there not like us in all things. I realize that. BUt so they got upset so what. There was no violence in the uae thats the point. In some ways I am sympathetic there is too much mockery of religion. BUt their outlook even culturally is becoming more western. At the end of the day I cant expect the UAE to suddenally say hey everyone here can blasoheme the prophet, allow the stores to sell pornorgraphy, and allow unfettered rights to an abortion. Its a different culture and I respect that. However, its amazing how despite the Conservative nature of Islam the UAE is very forward looking and not just in Economics. As to the Dubai lawyer wanting too sue. So what Lawyers sue here over everything
The point is I am not expecting them to have the exact same freedoms as here. There is at this point not the mood in their society for it.
What good are "secure ports" if our nation rots from the inside and/or gets subverted?
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html
Here's the Koran online. Read through the first ten chapters tonight.
...its amazing how despite the Conservative nature of Islam...
This is where I say good night!
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