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Divining W : Inside the God that George Washington Worships ( Was he Deist or Christian ?)
National Review ^ | 02/20/2006 | Michael and Jana Novak

Posted on 02/22/2006 8:38:05 AM PST by SirLinksalot

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To: stuartcr

One God, but many "gods".


21 posted on 02/22/2006 9:16:42 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: trebb

So, when someone prays to God, who hears, where does the prayer go? Is there a religion filter?


22 posted on 02/22/2006 9:20:13 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: SirLinksalot

Why?


23 posted on 02/22/2006 9:21:45 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
Why?

Why What ?
24 posted on 02/22/2006 9:28:35 AM PST by SirLinksalot
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To: stuartcr

When one prays to God, God hears it. When one prays to one of the "gods", the prayer is wasted. There are many places in the Bible, where it tells us to pray to God and also warns about worshipping "gods" as they are worthless and worshipping them relegates the person praying to worthlessness. I'm not sure how many religions worship the God of the Bible, but it would seem most of the major religions do.


25 posted on 02/22/2006 9:34:13 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: SirLinksalot

Why was he definitely not a Deist?


26 posted on 02/22/2006 9:37:12 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Servant of the 9
No, Washington had nowhere near the talent of Voltaire.

In my estimation, Washington's accomplishments far exceeded Voltaire's.

27 posted on 02/22/2006 9:38:51 AM PST by Logophile
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To: trebb

If we agree that there is only one God, then there is no God of the bible, or the Torah, or the Quran, or any specific one, there is just God.

If a non-Christian prays to God, how does the one and only God, not hear that prayer?


28 posted on 02/22/2006 9:40:06 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: SirLinksalot

Bookmarked/later read.


29 posted on 02/22/2006 9:54:16 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Logophile
No, Washington had nowhere near the talent of Voltaire.

In my estimation, Washington's accomplishments far exceeded Voltaire's.

As a bullshitter?
That was the context.

So9

30 posted on 02/22/2006 9:59:00 AM PST by Servant of the 9 (" I am just going outside, and may be some time.")
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To: stuartcr
Why was he definitely not a Deist?

The given belief of a Deist is that God is simply the unmoved mover, someone who wind up the clock of the universe and never intervenes. Therefore it makes no sense to pray to this God.

Since George Washington prays to God and encourages others to do so as well, his belief cannot be Deistic.
31 posted on 02/22/2006 9:59:38 AM PST by SirLinksalot
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To: stuartcr
One answer which explains the difference between God and "gods" is: Surrounded by pagan neighbors, God's people often encountered people who worshiped other gods. Baal, Asherah, and other fertility gods played a significant role during Old Testament times. By Jesus' day, the baals were replaced by Greek and Roman gods. Hellenistic people engaged in immoral behaviors to honor their gods and to entice their return from the underworld.

from page

The God of the Bible is the God of the Torah, but many who worship God are not Christians (most Jews for example). God hears all prayers, but He will not heed those who pray to "gods". The Bible contains a story of a prophet putting a pile of wood out and exhorting them to pray for their god to burn the pile. When they fail, he douses the pile with water and beseeches God to set it on fire, at which time it is totally incinerated.

The main point being, that if prays to God, God listens, if one prays to some idol or other false god, noone hears the prayers.

32 posted on 02/22/2006 10:01:35 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: SirLinksalot

Have you ever been in combat and heard men crying out for their mothers? They know she can't intervene, but they do it anyway, because it brings them comfort, and it is a natural thing to do. I believe it is the same type of thing with Deists praying.


33 posted on 02/22/2006 10:02:42 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: presidio9

I think that was inferred from the Josh Speed letters.


34 posted on 02/22/2006 10:04:58 AM PST by stainlessbanner (Downhome Dixie)
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To: trebb

Didn't those who worshipped Baal, etc, believe that they were worshipping God? What does it matter how you see God in your own mind, if there really is only one God? God being omnipotent, can easily manifest Himself in any way He may want, to anyone He wants.

I do not believe there really is any way of knowing what God hears...it's just in our faith.


35 posted on 02/22/2006 10:10:11 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
Is there a religion filter?

And they go to God's bulk mail folder or trash bin.

Most prayers are silly selfish negotiations, forwards of forwards, scams, or outright spam.

And God doesn't read the prayers of Seahawk fans, He simply filters them straight to trash.

36 posted on 02/22/2006 10:15:23 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye

Obviously.


37 posted on 02/22/2006 10:21:57 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Servant of the 9
"I'm saying we don't know and can't know from the material that has come down to us just what his faith was."

..."Diary and Remembrances" of the Rev. Nathaniel Randolph Snowden, an ordained Presbyterian minister, graduate of Princeton with a degree from Dickinson College. The original is owned by the Historical Society of Pennsylvania. Mr. Snowden was born in Philadelphia January 17, 1770 and died November 12, 1851. His writings cover a period from youth to 1846. In his records may be found these observations, in Mr. Snowden's own handwriting: ...[snip]

Mr. Snowden, as if to emphasize the piety of Washington sets forth in his records that he often saw Washington, that he accompanied seventy other clergymen to visit him on the anniversary of his birth February 22, 1792. Then Mr. Snowden adds:

"I felt much impressed in his presence and reflected upon the hand and wonderful Providence of God in raising him up and qualifying him with so many rare qualities and virtues for the good of this country and the world. Washington was not only brave and talented, but a truly excellent and pious man of God and of prayer. He always retired before a battle and in any emergency for prayer and direction."

"When the army lay at Morristown, the Rev. Dr. Jones, administered the sacrament of ye Lord's supper. Washington came forward at ye head of all his officers and took his seat at ye 1st table, & took of ye bread and wine, the Symbols of Christ's broken body and shed blood, to do this in remembrance of ye L J C & thus professed himself a Christian & a disciple of the blessed Jesus."
USHistory.org

Cordially,

38 posted on 02/22/2006 10:31:48 AM PST by Diamond
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To: SirLinksalot; wideawake; Paradox; mnehrling; stuartcr; Skooz
Deism in practice was not exactly a creed, with defined propositions you either accepted or rejected. . . . Strict Deists cannot accept that God intervenes in history on one side or the other.

Pretty self-contradictory assertions there. Deism has always rejected the notion that "God" controls every detail of what happens on Earth, and knows every thought that every person has, etc., and certainly rejected the notion of predestination. But leaving behind a God who is involved in everything from the war in Iraq to what color a teenage girl paints her fingernails for a date, leaves a very wide range of perceptions of the degree to which God may choose to, or be persuaded to become involved with certain affairs on Earth, and to which God may wish to ensure the eventual dominance of one "side" over another in history.

It actually makes more sense for a Deist to pray, than for what is today widely regarded as a Christian. If you believe that God may or may not choose to get involved in particular matters, it's worth praying as a means of drawing God's attention and persuading God to get involved. If you believe that God already knows everything about everything, and perhaps also believe that God has predestined the outcome of every action on Earth, and certainly of the general course of history, praying for God to bring about something or other doesn't make much sense. Both types of believers may engage in prayer in part as a way of listening to God, though people who believe in predestination theoretically have no choice in the matter, whereas a Deist certainly does.

39 posted on 02/22/2006 10:42:21 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: wideawake
The proof that Washington was not a Deist was that he very publicly called for prayers that God might intervene in human events.

"While Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist."...Ashbel Green, Presbyterian minister who was a close personal friend of George Washington.

This debate arose very soon after Washington's death. That's why Ashbel Green was asked about it. Most of the early "Washington was a Christian" stories were published by Mason Locke Weems, a Christian preacher who promoted the myth of George Washington and Christianity. He is also the one who invented the myth of Washington and the cherry tree. Preacers ever since have expanded on these Weems fables.

By definition, a Deist does not accept the notion of an interventionist deity.

True, but a Deist will pray along with Christians if doing so will give them comfort. Deists are not opposed to praying. They just don't believe in petition. "Thank You" is the only Deist prayer.

Nature's Law, Morality, Providence, God...All one, all the same. You can think of it as Karma.
.
40 posted on 02/22/2006 10:45:49 AM PST by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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