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Judge: No credible evidence underage sex always harmful
Witchita Eagle ^ | 2/9/6 | ROXANA HEGEMAN

Posted on 02/10/2006 6:52:36 AM PST by ZGuy

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To: TChris

The law is always on trial, basic precept.


121 posted on 02/10/2006 12:31:14 PM PST by Old Professer (Fix the problem, not the blame!)
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To: Sandy
Oh please. It's not the legislature's conclusions; it's the attorney general's conclusion.

Actually it is the legislatures conclusion. The legislature has seen fit to criminalize sexual relations with a person under the age of 16. Presumably they passed that law because they see sexual relations at that age as harmful to those under 16.

Thus, any evidence of sexual relations in that group of folks requires reporting. The reasonable would seem to only come in to play when deciding whether or not sexual realtions indeed happened. Pregnancy (read abortion), the root of the opinion and the court case would seem to be pretty solid evidence that sexual relations had happened. Since sexual relations under the age of 16 is criminal, the reporting of those relations is madatory.

The Attorney General's opinion is just that and the Tenth Circuit has already found his basis rational and overturned this Judges injunction.

122 posted on 02/10/2006 2:00:55 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: wagglebee

All things considered, I'd be dead.


123 posted on 02/10/2006 2:06:33 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Oztrich Boy; MineralMan
Irrelevant.

Then why bring it up ad nauseum?

What is under examination is a 2003 opinion issued by Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline's opinion requiring health care providers and others to tell authorities about consensual sex by underage youths.

No what is under examination is the law passed by the Kansas Legislature.

The legislature has made it a criminal offense for children under 16 to have sexual relations.

There is no better evidence than that that they have found that sexual relations in those under 16 is harmful. They are the finder of the fact, not the courts, not you and not I. They have that power.

The law requires that professional people that are cognizant of the fact of sexual relations in those under 16 report it.

There is no exemption in the law. The law states "When any of the following persons has reason to suspect that a child has been injured as a result of physical, mental or emotional abuse or neglect or sexual abuse, the person shall report the matter promptly as provided in subsection." The legislature has already determined that sexual acts by those under 16 causes injury to those under 16. The only "reason" the professional has is in determining whetehr or not sexual realtions have occurred. If they have then the professionals in question are bound to report it by law whether, you, I or the Judge likes it or not.

124 posted on 02/10/2006 2:10:52 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: wagglebee
I also agree with what some other people have said here, I don't think some teenage boy "feeling up" his girlfriend (of the same approximate age) is a crime that needs to be reported to the authorities.

Well then you should take comfort in the fact that a teenage boy feeling up his girlfriend is not what the case is all about. There are no Janet Reno stormtroopers hauling off the feelers or the felts. No young kids are being prosecuted and the birds and the bees still flourish in Kansas.

125 posted on 02/10/2006 2:19:35 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: starfish923
Americans created "teenagers" after World War II. No other countries has them the way we do....calling them all children up to 17 years, 364 days, and subjecting all of them to the laws of prepubescent children....except for 17-year-old "men" who enlist in the military. They suddenly become men at 17. Ah, the miralce of selective thinking. Before that teens down to age 13 worked. Some boys as young as 12 went to sea to work. Two Years Before the Mast was a wonderful book based on that teen's experiences aboard ship. "Underage" teens worked and married throughout history.

I have a similar take on what you said, the extended adolescence (it seems to go up to 25 sometimes in today's world) didn't really start until after World War II. In ancient Rome, a 14 year old could be the head of a house, join a legion and generally do what an adult was reaponsible for. Some Biblical scholars claim that Mary was 15 to 18 years old when Jesus was born while Joseph was 35 or 40ish. Early in the 20th Century, my great-great uncle, a Russian Jew settled in a tight knit Jewish community after an eventful life in his younger days to where a matchmaker (ala "Fiddler of the Roof" or "Yentl") fixed him up with a 16 to 18 year old bride, he was 45 or so, had kids and lived the rest of his life.

Now I don't advocate a lot of this in today's world, heck a 13 to 16 year old 100 years ago was generally more grown up than one today and thus wear more "Ready" to should some if not all of life's responsibilities. My grandfather quit school at 13 to go to work and that was 1914.

I do think we need to come together and work out these mixed messages we send out. I'm not for instant gratification for the sake of sex, myself, I feel we do need to get back to a more traditional society, but there are times hypocrisy shows. I think we do to get back to teaching our children and ourselves to be more mature and responsible but in this post 1960's "anything goes" society, it is really hard. I guess overall, the age of 16 for consent is a fair but imperfect compromise.
126 posted on 02/10/2006 2:57:38 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Q: What are the most sought after antiques? A: Anything with "Made in USA" on it, Thanks AK)
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To: little jeremiah; starfish923
There is a vast gulf of moral difference between animalistic and exploitative sex between underages kids, and a young teenage girl marrying. As people have mentioned before, and on this thread, in previous generations girls often married by their mid teens, usually to a young man a bit older than them. Some of our grandparents were these ages.

Marriage and illicit sex can't be compared.


Good points. Although I might havr touched upon that in my last post, you hit the nail on the head. That was a common thing because most men didn't marry until they hada plot of land, a good career or settled in a trade of some sort so many did not marry until 25 to 35 to a much younger wife. They did this so they could be settled to support a family.
127 posted on 02/10/2006 3:06:38 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Q: What are the most sought after antiques? A: Anything with "Made in USA" on it, Thanks AK)
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To: ZGuy

Ah, why don't we let juries with stakes in children decide and not some perverted corrupt judge commiting crimes in color of law?

Taking comfort in children who cannot vote nor represent themselves not harmful?

Convenient that the raped and murdered underage cannot decide to vote for such judges.

Disgusting.

I am flipping disgusted by the accepted brazenness of the fag party in power, partying their way on the top, on the back of exploited children on whom evil pervs like them party too.

We have passed a rubicon of corruption from which only severe consequences can occur if we attempt to reverse it. God help us.


128 posted on 02/10/2006 3:12:43 PM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
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To: Nowhere Man; All
for. Some Biblical scholars claim that Mary was 15 to 18 years old when Jesus was born while Joseph was 35 or 40ish.

If one assumes these assertions are correct, it not only shows that as the years have passed human standards have changed, it also illustrates that the Almighty Himself deemed a teen-aged girl old enough to bear a child, and more importantly, old enough to bear His Son.

And although human standards tend to vacillate irrationally, those of the Almighty do not.

129 posted on 02/10/2006 3:44:37 PM PST by Freebird Forever (Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.)
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To: jwalsh07
Actually it is the legislatures conclusion. The legislature has seen fit to criminalize sexual relations with a person under the age of 16.

However, the person under 16 isn't the person committing the crime. The law makes it a crime to have sex with an underage person, but the law doesn't punish the minor. The law punishes the adult. That's the big blunder in the 10th Circuit's opinion. The court concluded that minors have a right to informational privacy, but--since criminal activity is not protected by the right to privacy--minors don't have a right to privacy in their illegal sexual activity. This reasoning makes no sense unless you assume that the pregnant minor is the perpetrator rather than the victim of the supposed crime, which isn't at all how the law is either written or intended to be understood.

Anyway, according to the court, the district court didn't properly address other important preliminary injunction factors such as irreparable harm and balance of injuries. So it sounds to me like the injunction was rightly thrown out, but that's no indication of how the case will ultimately turn out. I expect the state will lose.

130 posted on 02/10/2006 3:45:27 PM PST by Sandy
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To: ZGuy; All

I agree with the judge regarding minor/minor sex. I don't think it's a good thing but it is not criminal. This is why most states have an age discrepancy clause (usually 2-3 years) in their statutory rape laws... and a minimum of age 12 for minor/minor sex not being a criminal offence.

Where I disagree is with adult/minor sex. This is clearly a danger and exploitative to minors and should remain criminal.


131 posted on 02/10/2006 8:18:29 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: conservative physics

In statutory rape situations, the minor is not the one breaking the law. Only the adult is legally culpable.


132 posted on 02/10/2006 8:21:11 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Owen

Most states have laws on the books which allows for an age discrepancy between the parties of 2-3 years, where one is a minor and one is a legal adult.


133 posted on 02/10/2006 8:22:42 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: starfish923

Most states already have an age discrepancy clause built into their statutory rape laws. Generally 1-3 years, where one party is a minor and one party is a legal adult.

The objective of statutory rape laws is not to deter like-age teens from having sex with each other ... it is to deter adults having sex with minors.


134 posted on 02/10/2006 8:25:55 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: ZGuy

This Judge lacks the maturity, morality and mentality expected of one in his position.

He needs to be pumping gas or flipping hamburgers-but only under close supervision.


135 posted on 02/10/2006 8:31:41 PM PST by F.J. Mitchell (Let's make government a liberal free zone.)
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To: jwalsh07
Laws on the books that are most always unenforced can be mischievous in the hands of an Earle type prosecutor. It raises the specter of selective enforcement. Is your point primarily a legal one, or a public policy one?
136 posted on 02/10/2006 9:06:03 PM PST by Torie
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To: jwalsh07

What if the legislature decided pi = 3?


137 posted on 02/10/2006 9:19:24 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck
What if the legislature decided pi = 3?

What if we strung together millions of grapefruits with det cord and exploded them in sequence, before time existed I might add?

138 posted on 02/11/2006 8:03:26 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Torie

Primarily public policy. The issue here is not 15 year olds groping in the front or back seat.


139 posted on 02/11/2006 8:05:08 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: ZGuy
"Motives are irrelevant - I want to deal with facts," Marten said. "Where is the clear, credible evidence that underage sex is always injurious? If you tell me because it is illegal - I reject that," Marten said.

Another wannabe legislator in black robes.

Leave the bench and run for the state legislature, judge, if policy debates are your passion.

140 posted on 02/11/2006 8:08:07 AM PST by JCEccles
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