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NRA bill would OK guns in cars at work
MiamiHerald.com ^ | Feb. 08, 2006 | MARC CAPUTO

Posted on 02/08/2006 7:13:35 AM PST by neverdem

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To: VanDeKoik
I can have your car searched.

I never really understood the desire of some people to rifle through the private belongings of others.

Frankly, I find it bizzare to say the least. I guess some folks are control freaks, or have weird fetishes, or just enjoy abusing their authority over others.

I've always respected the private property of others. I don't go through women's purses when they leave them unattended on a date. I don't dig through workers toolboxes when they take a bathroom break. I don't sneak around through my neighbors house when invited over for dinner.

I guess some folks *do* these things, and they tend to show up on threads like this. It is really kind of creepy.

Dont want it searched? Walk to work or park on the street.

Like I said, that is creepy. It sounds like you would have had a promising career as a Stasi agent. Too bad for you, they are out of business.

61 posted on 02/08/2006 4:42:22 PM PST by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Dead Corpse
Your property Rights to your land do not automatically give you property Rights over my vehicle. The very idea is absurd.

Not only is it absurd, I find it downright creepy and even un-American that someone would claim authority to rifle through another person's private property.

62 posted on 02/08/2006 4:46:02 PM PST by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Mulder
Absolutely, which is why the state has the power to get involved.

There is another "reason" or at least justification. Corporations are not people, except as provided by law. Those laws are designed to give the people who actually own corporations protections against risking any more than they have invested. It goes back to the Dutch explorers, at least. Companies, not being people, have no rights, none. They have priveleges granted by government. In return for those privileges the government may limit what would otherwise be private rights.

And of course as others have mentioned, there are some competing rights considerations as well. In such cases the solution is often the minimum possible restrictions on the rights (or privileges) of both sides of the issue. In this case that would mean such things as requiring firearms to be locked in vehicles and not visible from outside, which is an infringement but a livable one, similarly, any objective analysis will show that no real injury at all is done to the company. (As we all know, such policies do nothing to stop criminals or the insane, and only guarantee them a safer "work environment", ie. "Gun Free Victim Zone".)

63 posted on 02/08/2006 10:36:48 PM PST by El Gato
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To: El Gato
Companies, not being people, have no rights, none. They have priveleges granted by government. In return for those privileges the government may limit what would otherwise be private rights.

You, sir, are 100% correct. Although I've argued this point here in the past and you would be surprised at the number of people who claimed that corporations have Rights.

64 posted on 02/09/2006 5:49:49 AM PST by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: VanDeKoik
As my employee, You follow my rules when you come onto my property.

Do I have to worship the god you dictate?

65 posted on 02/09/2006 5:59:41 AM PST by Sloth (Archaeologists test for intelligent design all the time.)
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To: VanDeKoik; JennieOsborne; /\XABN584; 3D-JOY; 5Madman; <1/1,000,000th%; 11B3; 1Peter2:16; ...
If I dont want guns on my property, why shouldnt you respect my rights?

-----

The problem I see with that thinking is that YOUR policy against me bringing by gun into your parking lot, conflicts with MY right to have my gun before I get to YOUR parking lot, and when I LEAVE your parking lot..... I am not sure if there is an easy solution to this

66 posted on 02/10/2006 11:16:10 AM PST by davidosborne (DavidOsborne.net)
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To: davidosborne

Maybe a business oportunity here...??? public use gun lockers to drop off/pick up your gun OUTSIDE the parking lot?


67 posted on 02/10/2006 11:18:30 AM PST by davidosborne (DavidOsborne.net)
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To: davidosborne

BTTT


68 posted on 02/10/2006 11:20:06 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: absolootezer0
"i'm glad one of the things MI is pretty good on is their gun laws. MI recognizes that your vehicle is your personal property, and that you may have you gun in your vehicle anywhere. including schools, courts, police stations, and everywhere else."

I wish it was that way where I live. I'm a public defender and I just got a felony firearms case where a young man had a firearm on school property. He had an M1 Garand his grandfather had given him. He had just taken it by a gunsmith to get an estimate on some refinishing work he wanted done. Later that day, with the rifle still in the backseat of his vehicle, he went to the high school to pick up his nephew. A passerby noticed the rifle in his backseat when he was parked out in front of the school, and called the law. He was arrested even though there were no clips or bullets in the truck and even though he never took the rifle out from where it was laying in his backseat. Technically, he's guilty of a felony. Hopefully the prosecutor will have a heart and not stick to his guns on a felony, but no doubt he'll still want this guy to plead to some misdemeanor "possession of an instrument of crime" charge and pay a big fine. Shoot, when I was in high school some kids had had guns on gun racks in the back windows of their pickup trucks. Things sure have changed.
69 posted on 02/10/2006 11:35:21 AM PST by TKDietz
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To: davidosborne
"I am not sure if there is an easy solution to this"

There isn't. You have the rights of the property owner versus the rights of the citizen guest. Both are quite valid.

Overall, I say let the market decide -- I'll take my business elsewhere if I can. And if rules are to be made, it would be best to err on the side of individual liberty.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

70 posted on 02/10/2006 12:00:07 PM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: davidosborne

That's a BS argument, you don't have to park on his parking lot, park elsewhere and walk.

You have no right to enter my property if I don't want you on my property, and if you can't adhere to my conditions of entry, I don't have to allow you on my property.


71 posted on 02/10/2006 12:10:04 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Joe Brower
"...owner versus the rights of the citizen guest."

The government may not abridge a citizen's right to bear arms, I, on the other hand, as a private citizen, am not bound by the Constitution.

Perfect example...if you come on my property and start conducting Islamic prayer services in my yard, I'll have you removed, by force if necessary, because your right of freedom of religion does not supersede my rights as a property owner.

Your rights end where mine begin.

72 posted on 02/10/2006 12:13:17 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: davidosborne
"The problem I see with that thinking is that YOUR policy against me bringing by gun into your parking lot, conflicts with MY right to have my gun before I get to YOUR parking lot, and when I LEAVE your parking lot..."

Your argument assumes a right to enter that parking lot. You don't have that right unless it's given to you by the owner.

It takes a court order for the government to do that.

Your right to carry ends at the edge of someone else's property.

73 posted on 02/10/2006 12:16:31 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

which argument do you suggest is "BS".. I think I made a valid argument for both sides.. and simply pointed out that the ballance between the two is not easily made.


74 posted on 02/10/2006 12:17:10 PM PST by davidosborne (DavidOsborne.net)
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To: Dead Corpse
"Unless you are the one making the car payments on my car..."

Yet, you claim right to use the parking lot I paid for however you want to use it.

The right you claim as the owner of that car applies to the owner of the parking lot.

75 posted on 02/10/2006 12:18:20 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: davidosborne

There is no balance...property rights trump.

You don't have to park in my lot.


76 posted on 02/10/2006 12:19:14 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Regardless of how this comes out, I will continue to do what I please with my private property (my automobile) and my employer can take a flying leap. It's none of their business, and I will never consent to a search of my vehicle, their fantasy life regarding my private property notwithstanding.


77 posted on 02/10/2006 12:20:52 PM PST by RogueIsland
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To: Luis Gonzalez

exactly the reason why I stated that the balance between the rights are not easily achieved.. in essence an employer who makes it difficult for an employee to exercise their "right to carry" while NOT ON THE CLOCK... basicly to and from work... is a fair question for an employee to ask.. IMHO an employer does not assume ANY liability by NOT creating a "prohibition". The decision to carry a firearm in your vehicle should rest with the individual not the company they work for..


78 posted on 02/10/2006 12:24:12 PM PST by davidosborne (DavidOsborne.net)
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To: absolootezer0
i'm glad one of the things MI is pretty good on is their gun laws. MI recognizes that your vehicle is your personal property, and that you may have you gun in your vehicle anywhere.

Not exactly...you REALLY require a concealed carry permit to do that:

"It is unlawful to carry a handgun concealed on or about one`s person or concealed or openly in a vehicle without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

If you don't, they're pretty specific on how and where they should be in your vehicle:

In order to transport or possess rifles and shotguns in a motor vehicle, Michigan law requires that they be unloaded and broken down or enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of the vehicle, or inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle."

79 posted on 02/10/2006 12:24:45 PM PST by Recovering Hermit (Wake up and smell the enemy!)
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To: neverdem
I can see some solid legal reasoning for this. Your vehicle is treated as "portable private property" by the law, isn't it? As long as the firearm is in your car, shouldn't that be legally viewed as being on your property, not the business'? (Something like a foreign embassy on American soil.)

I'm no lawyer or law student, but it makes sense to me.

80 posted on 02/10/2006 12:24:50 PM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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