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Bush Doesn't Get It on Immigration
Human Events ^ | Febuary.1, 2006 | Congressman Tom Tancredo

Posted on 02/01/2006 7:38:50 AM PST by Reagan Man

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To: fairtrader
"no amnesty" sound a lot like "no new taxes". I think it's genetic or something.

Bottom line Bush - will do nothing substantial about the border and the 'Crats will take the Senate this fall.

You reap what you sow. Sad, really sad."

I'm afraid that's an accurate assessment

161 posted on 02/01/2006 9:59:58 AM PST by moehoward
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To: A.Hun
As a landscape contractor,I'd like to take a stab at these.

Workplace enforcement. Fine...who exactly is gonna do the enforcement, and how much is it going to cost. Try to get local California municipalities to go along with that.

How about the same people that enforce my comliance with local laws regarding,landscape construction,pesticide applications,ad volerum taxes,business licenses,state certifications,sales taxes,etc.,,?They range from the local city municipal office to the Alabama Department of Agriculture.

Big fines for employers. Great...another way to hurt business...especially small ones.

My business is a small one.One that is directly impacted by others utilizing illegal labor.The only small business this would hurt,are the one's operating illegally.You don't feel sorry for those Enron execs do you?They were simply trying to make a buck.

Jail time for employers. Fine...build more prisons. Of course finding a contractor locally might become a problem.

Simply not true.There are contractors out there,believe it or not,who believe in obeying the law and are doing so.Even though the cards are stacked against them.

162 posted on 02/01/2006 10:01:58 AM PST by quack
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To: sure_fine
""but the inevitable civil war that would start down there might be alot bigger problem than has been thought out"

Don't kid yourself, it's been well thought out.

For decades there has been a strong Communist presence in Mexico, it's one of the reasons the feds have ignored the steady stream of would-be worker revolutionaries north of the border. We are absorbing the very forces that would fight for change in Mexico.

163 posted on 02/01/2006 10:09:27 AM PST by moehoward
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To: A.Hun
There is nothing unreasonable about fining employers who break the employment laws. If employers force children to work in sweatshops 16 hours per day should they be fined? If employers fail to pay agreed wages should they be fined? If employers fail to withhold and remit employment taxes should they be fined. Your argument is nonsense.

If a few employers who broke the employment laws with respect to hiring illegals were sent to jail, there would be no need to build more prisons because employers would quickly realize that the penalty for hiring illegals was to expensive relative to the benefit and the practice of hiring illegals would stop. Very few employers would ever need to be jailed. Your argument is nonsense.

People cheat the IRS just like people speed. But a little enforcement by the IRS goes a long way and the vast majority of Americans obey the tax law. A little bit of enforcement of our immigration laws would also go a long way and the IRS could absolutely turn it into a bonanza for the American people. About 65% of illegal immigrants are using fake/stolen Social Security Cards. That means that 35% are cheating the system. That is billions of non-tax compliance and would pay for every bit of the enforcement being talked about. Your argument is nonsense.

Making on-line document checks mandatory would take away the excuse that businesses are currently using to avoid prosecution. They claim that they could not tell the documents were fake. With mandatory checks that excuse would cease to exist and prosecution would become a no-brainer and most employers would just plea bargain and pay the fine rather than incur legal fees in a lost cause. Your argument is nonsense.

Fences work. Only about 5000 people successfully crossed the Berlin Wall in 40 years. In Israel, the fence has cut terrorism by 95%. Our fence would probably not work as well because I doubt we would shoot transgressors but if it cut the problem in half it would be an enormously good investment. Your argument is nonsense.

Just once I would like to see somebody opposed to enforcing our laws make a reasonable argument.

164 posted on 02/01/2006 10:10:41 AM PST by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: colorcountry
You've got to be a troll.

Where did Bush say anything about supporting illegal immigration.

Hmm I wonder where you have been the last four years, what has Presidente Bush done other than invite illegals over here with his talks of amnesty. Nothing to improve enforcement efforts. Yes he left out the word illegal in his speech, but his actions have shown otherwise.

165 posted on 02/01/2006 10:12:14 AM PST by rolling_stone (Question Authority!)
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To: quack
How about the same people that enforce my comliance with local laws regarding,landscape construction,pesticide applications,ad volerum taxes,business licenses,state certifications,sales taxes,etc.,,?They range from the local city municipal office to the Alabama Department of Agriculture.

You are going to get an inspector to grab an illegal immigrant? Don't think so.

My business is a small one.One that is directly impacted by others utilizing illegal labor.The only small business this would hurt,are the one's operating illegally.You don't feel sorry for those Enron execs do you?They were simply trying to make a buck.

Business owners are not private investigators. You are going to put the burden of proving who someone is on them? Not. Fraud is a little different.

Simply not true.There are contractors out there,believe it or not,who believe in obeying the law and are doing so.Even though the cards are stacked against them.

See previous response.

166 posted on 02/01/2006 10:13:39 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: Reagan Man
"The Kyl-Cornyn immigration bill is far better then the McCain-Kennedy bill, however, neither proposal gets the job done. "

Yes it's slightly more palatable in it's present form. But you can bet the farm it will be gutted. First to go will be the provisions that mandate leaving the country to apply for the program.

167 posted on 02/01/2006 10:14:54 AM PST by moehoward
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To: Reagan Man
Click Here to Enter Clean House.
168 posted on 02/01/2006 10:15:55 AM PST by VU4G10 (Have You Forgotten?)
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To: afnamvet
Why would they leave? Who is going to make sure they leave?

The same bumbling inept federal agencies that allowed them to come illegally in the first place. Honestly, anyone who buys Bush's snake oil on this topic is beyond naive.

169 posted on 02/01/2006 10:16:21 AM PST by piceapungens
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To: Dane
"Well gneius, it takes a Senate to pass a immigration reform bill and what does your hero tancredo do. He pushes away allies(Kyl/Cornyn) to grandstand and massage his ego, IMO. "

"Well gneius", maybe because he has his own BETTER program!!

170 posted on 02/01/2006 10:17:05 AM PST by moehoward
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To: jackbenimble
Fences work. Only about 5000 people successfully crossed the Berlin Wall in 40 years. In Israel, the fence has cut terrorism by 95%. Our fence would probably not work as well because I doubt we would shoot transgressors but if it cut the problem in half it would be an enormously good investment. Your argument is nonsense.

A 2000 mile long fence... now that is nonsense.

171 posted on 02/01/2006 10:17:05 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: A.Hun

A third-world America...now that is nonsense.


172 posted on 02/01/2006 10:23:20 AM PST by Aznar5
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To: TheBrotherhood
I think he gets it, but his neocon puppetmasters won't let him fix the borders.

We're being sold out.

Tancredo for President! He's the only one who is speaking for the majority of Americans.

173 posted on 02/01/2006 10:25:19 AM PST by janetgreen (Washington fiddles while America is invaded!)
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To: Sybeck1
"So if we get guest workers,will the unions be able to organize them to demand more pay and benefits?"

Yep. They will. And because of withholdings included in those paychecks, they wont be as cheap as the their now Illegal variant.

174 posted on 02/01/2006 10:27:31 AM PST by moehoward
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To: A.Hun
A 2000 mile long fence... now that is nonsense.

Spoken like a true defeatist. I suppopse a trip to the moon is out of the question too.

175 posted on 02/01/2006 10:27:34 AM PST by piceapungens
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To: A.Hun
A 2000 mile long fence... now that is nonsense

Why is a fence nonsense? So many countries are going with them these days, must be doing it for a reason.

176 posted on 02/01/2006 10:27:57 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: A.Hun
A 2000 mile long fence... now that is nonsense.
</i>
Why? We have tens of thousands of miles of interstate highway. Building a massively secure fence is a lot cheaper and simpler than that. It is usually estimated at about $1.5 to $2 million per mile. At $4 million per mile which ought to be the super deluxe model fully equipped with all the latest and greatest technology, it would cost $8 billion. That is less than the annual net of the taxes they pay cost of illegal immigration to just the taxpayers of California. That leaves out the cost to all the other states and the Federal Government. Saving that kind of money annually for taxpayers is not nonsense. It would be a terrific investment.
177 posted on 02/01/2006 10:28:30 AM PST by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: Aznar5

Very little difference between this batch of immigrants and the last.

None of them have turned us into a third world nation yet.


178 posted on 02/01/2006 10:28:58 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: A.Hun

Nonsense is the policy we have now.

A fence and security would be makesense.


179 posted on 02/01/2006 10:30:04 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ( You'll love Laffey! http://www.electlaffey.com Chafeehas2go)
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To: moehoward
I'm just as apprehensive about the Kyl-Cornyn plan getting gutted as you are. Congress has a habit of gutting lot of good legislative proposals.

Check this out: Rewarding Employers that Abide by the Law and Guaranteeing Uniform Enforcement to Stop Terrorism Act of 2005 or the REAL GUEST Act of 2005

180 posted on 02/01/2006 10:31:56 AM PST by Reagan Man (Secure our borders;punish employers who hire illegals;stop all welfare to illegals)
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