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Intelligent design is not creationism (Stephen Meyer)
London Telegraph ^ | 01/28/2006 | Stephen Meyer

Posted on 01/30/2006 9:40:22 AM PST by SirLinksalot

click here to read article


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To: Coyoteman

Well, hello Coyoteman! Nice of you to join us.


101 posted on 01/30/2006 1:37:19 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: VadeRetro
Vade, old buddy, you are proving my point.

The only ignorant people are those who already believe they know everything.
102 posted on 01/30/2006 1:38:41 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
Well, hello Coyoteman! Nice of you to join us.

Been lurking.

Work to do. You know, digging up fossils and making up lies about them and all.

(Just kidding, I work with archaeological sites, not paleontological sites.)

You all be good now. I'll check back later.

103 posted on 01/30/2006 1:43:08 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: mlc9852; bobdsmith
You did a thread on a creationist article dumb-dumbing on the platypus. Bobdsmith linked you this article.

Now, you might have simply forgotten, but this is the answer to questions you have been asking about a thing which fascinates you. But you forgot anyway.

Now, the article does have some deficiencies. It doesn't dwell on the obvious point that the mix of reptilian and mammalian features it cites arise from the line leading to modern monotremes having split off very early from the rest of the mammals.

A more detailed (if dated) treatment with some attention to creationist arguments here.

104 posted on 01/30/2006 1:46:54 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Coyoteman

"You know, digging up fossils and making up lies about them and all"

Ah, yes. A tough job but somebody's got to do it! LOL

Looking forward to your wisdom as always.


105 posted on 01/30/2006 1:48:08 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
More memory problems?

"So, one day a snake gives birth to a bird. But where O where is there another little bird for it to mate with?"

106 posted on 01/30/2006 1:48:11 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro
So are you saying the platypus used to look/behave differently? My understanding was it was unchanged since the first fossils were discovered, though I admit to not remembering exactly how long ago that was. And I believe there is only one other known monotreme, correct? Well, that we know of. No telling what hasn't been discovered yet.
107 posted on 01/30/2006 1:50:26 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
The only ignorant people are those who already believe they know everything.

But it is a hallmark of creationism and ID to cherish an ignorance of the most common arguments against their position (or for the position they oppose).

108 posted on 01/30/2006 1:50:34 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: mlc9852

Yes, everything you're saying is wrong.


109 posted on 01/30/2006 1:51:06 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: mlc9852
Fossil monotremes.

Now, when I'm fascinated by something I try to find out about it. What you're fasinated by, you fight to remain ignorant of.

We're not the same.

110 posted on 01/30/2006 1:53:26 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: All
Out for a bit. I don't have hair to spare for pulling.
111 posted on 01/30/2006 1:56:07 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro

Actually I posted an aritcle about the platypus recently.


112 posted on 01/30/2006 2:00:35 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: silverleaf

> Biotechnology is making it hard to defend Darwinism

Exactly backwards. Biotech is making it hard to defend anything *other* than Darwinian evolution as the cause of biodiversity.

> Children whose science educations are denied exposure to ID implications, even as a controversy, are missing a lot, imho.

Science class is the wrong place for ID. Teach about ID in an appropriate class... history or philosophy, say, alongside ID's stablemates of astrology and phrenology.


113 posted on 01/30/2006 2:04:56 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: orionblamblam

Is there more than one kind of evolution or is it all just natural selection?


114 posted on 01/30/2006 2:40:52 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852

> Is there more than one kind of evolution or is it all just natural selection?

There are several types of (biological) evolution. All the demonstrated ones rely on some form of natural selection.


115 posted on 01/30/2006 2:50:38 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: mlc9852

Actually biotechnology has shown a process of unnatural selection and the process of reduction appears perilously close to reaching irreduction. Biotechnologists are scrambling to try and put Darwin back together again.

Even poor Sir Francis Crick, by the time of his death and after 60 years of seeking to use biology to demonstrate evolution, was forced to change scientific disciplines in his quest to disprove god. He even reverted to theorizing about "panspermia" to explain the irreducible and inexplicable.

http://www.gene-watch.org/genewatch/articles/16-3commoner.html


116 posted on 01/30/2006 3:05:29 PM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: orionblamblam

Would genetic drift be considered natural selection also?


117 posted on 01/30/2006 3:10:36 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852

> Would genetic drift be considered natural selection also?

No. Apples and oranges.


118 posted on 01/30/2006 3:20:40 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: mlc9852
Actually I posted an aritcle about the platypus recently.

Noticed it among your links and made reference to it here. It wasn't a learning experience for you, as you have demonstrated on this thread today.

119 posted on 01/30/2006 3:53:58 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro
"So, one day a snake gives birth to a bird. But where O where is there another little bird for it to mate with?"

I won't leave this hanging forever since no one wants it.

There are two wrong implicit assumptions here. Evolution does not assume a snake (or even dinosaur) gave birth to a bird. No saltation. Someone now wants to announce that unctuated equilibrium is a "hopeful monster" theory. No, it isn't. Read here.

Just as importantly, whole groups evolve. Some kind of barrier arises between a sub-population and the rest of the species. It may be a geographical barrier. It may be a habitat preference arising during a period of adaptive radiation. There is no problem within the evolving sub-population finding a compatible mate. Even if the group is evolving "rapidly" on evolutionary timescales, nothing crazy happens in one generation. All through the process, members of the group remain sexually compatible with each other. Because it's a whole subpopulation evolving, compatibility exists within the group even as its members are slowly losing it with other groups.

120 posted on 01/30/2006 4:06:33 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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