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Microsoft to Open Windows to Please EU
Excite News ^ | 25 January 2006 | AOIFE WHITE

Posted on 01/25/2006 7:10:50 AM PST by ShadowAce

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To: ShadowAce
.. don't tell GE or he'd have a conniption.

So what else is new? ;-)

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060125103545406

61 posted on 01/26/2006 6:42:34 AM PST by TechJunkYard (DMCA: Don't Make Content Accessable)
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To: Golden Eagle
As for me, I'm against it, secrecy is an additional layer of security, and without the EU and other socialists pushing open source on us all this never would have happened.

I read further. This wasn't the EU's request, but Microsoft's choice. The EU never asked for code, only documentation. My guess is that Microsoft didn't have the APIs completely documented in the first place, and just thought releasing the code would make it easier to fully comply than combing through the code and documenting everything.

62 posted on 01/27/2006 9:58:29 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: CodeToad
The NSA has many algos they use and are classified Top Secret and above.

I admit I'm being anal here, but no such thing as above Top Secret, just different compartments within Top Secret. NSA crypto would probably be TS/SCI/SI (Top Secret, Special Compartmented Information, Special Intelligence).

63 posted on 01/27/2006 10:04:47 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Senator Bedfellow
So how does forcing open the source remedy bundling? Answer: it doesn't, obviously.

It doesn't address that. This addresses interoperability with third-party products, another part of the antitrust action. And the EU never asked for code, only documentation about the APIs.

64 posted on 01/27/2006 10:05:17 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
This addresses interoperability with third-party products, another part of the antitrust action.

Yes, it's almost like projects such as SAMBA don't really exist.

And the EU never asked for code, only documentation about the APIs.

They've asked for code now. Apparently they didn't like the documentation they received back in March.

65 posted on 01/27/2006 10:50:23 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: antiRepublicrat

Yes, you are being anal. The compartments are loosely known as "above ts".


66 posted on 01/27/2006 11:11:25 AM PST by CodeToad
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Yes, it's almost like projects such as SAMBA don't really exist.

Remember, this action is about what the state was in the 90s. They've done a lot of reverse-engineering since then, and Microsoft has actually become cooperative.

They've asked for code now. Apparently they didn't like the documentation they received back in March.

They didn't think what Microsoft sent was good enough, and requested more complete documentation. Microsoft basically said "You want better documentation? We'll do you one better and give you the code." The EU didn't request code.

67 posted on 01/27/2006 11:12:43 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

And it's still not enough:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4652730.stm

So, do you really dislike Microsoft this much that the Eurosocialists are now the good guys - one of those ends-justify-the-means kind of things?


68 posted on 01/27/2006 11:15:09 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: CodeToad
The compartments are loosely known as "above ts".

Maybe colloquially, but not when you work with this stuff.

69 posted on 01/27/2006 11:21:53 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

I do, son, I do.


70 posted on 01/27/2006 11:27:51 AM PST by CodeToad
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To: Senator Bedfellow
And it's still not enough:

May not be enough -- they're withholding judgement. Although the tone of the article makes me say "Friggin' socialists, give'em an inch and they take a mile."

It is true that code isn't the end-all of documentation. Anyone who's waded through thousands of lines of another's undocumented code knows what I mean. Still, surely the previous documentation plus the code should be enough for any reasonable person -- but who says the EU is reasonable?

do you really dislike Microsoft this much that the Eurosocialists are now the good guys -

Read my earlier post from before I found out the code production wasn't forced. Anyone should be free to license their code how they want, open or closed, as long as that license doesn't violate law.

71 posted on 01/27/2006 11:28:26 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: CodeToad
I do, son, I do.

So do I, but I've never heard "above TS" from those working with it, only whether you have need to know or are cleared for that compartmentalized info.

72 posted on 01/27/2006 11:30:56 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

"but I've never heard "


So, beause you didn't hear of it it doesn't happen? Let's just drop it. silly argument.


73 posted on 01/27/2006 11:36:59 AM PST by CodeToad
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To: antiRepublicrat
It is true that code isn't the end-all of documentation.

Oh, come on. Let's roll through Sourceforge and start counting up projects where the source code is the only documentation that exists at all. They've got the protocol sources they requested, the API docs they requested, and MS is offering tech support for the folks who have to go through it. How about we just mandate that Microsoft not only provide all this information, but actually write a competing implementation for everyone else to use. Is that zero-effort enough for you?

74 posted on 01/27/2006 12:11:12 PM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Oh, come on. Let's roll through Sourceforge and start counting up projects where the source code is the only documentation that exists at all.

Which isn't a good thing. Those are projects that are not going to get much participation.

They've got the protocol sources they requested, the API docs they requested, and MS is offering tech support for the folks who have to go through it.

You must read the articles about this. They got some of the API docs they requested, but not enough for them, not enough to completely document the APIs to ensure the ability of programmers to make compatible products. They got the code which they did not request because Microsoft didn't feel like completing the API documentation.

75 posted on 01/28/2006 10:15:05 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: CodeToad
Let's just drop it. silly argument.

It's not really an argument, it's just that I'm a purist on various things. Poorly indented code is an example, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. Another is improperly referencing security, despite what the vernacular may be, since it can lead to confusion. I'm kind of a stickler for security and clear rules for communication of sensitive or complex subjects.

76 posted on 01/28/2006 10:18:57 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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