A European dictatorship

Washington Times ^ | January 20, 2006 | Frederick W. Stakelbeck Jr.

[Romanov]

Mazepa, regarding funding and Yushenko - You're right, I have no idea who pays his bills, but after reading on the net about the amount of support he allegedly received from far right groups in Western Ukraine, it seemed logical to assume he received financial help from them. It'd be interesting to see. And, I don't think receiving funding from Berezovsky or Soros is anything to be happy about either. Having said that, I think Putin's intrusion into the election was one of the biggest mistakes he's made in his presidency. If anything, in my opinion, this Russian incursion into domestic politics probably gained Yushenko votes.

Didn't know you were not posting from America and should not have included you on the spanalot list! Having said that, while it's your country (Ukraine) and you have every right to be proud of it, support it, etc., Western Ukraine has some serious problems connected to nationalism. As an "outsider" I have to shake my head when I see the venom exchanged between Russians and Ukrainians. To me, you're the same people, not cousins, but brothers, as someone else mentioned on here. I can't swing a dead cat in Moscow without hitting someone of Ukrainian heritage. A lot of the "Russian" officials I deal with have Ukrainian last names. I lot of the "Ukrainian" officials I deal with have Russian last names. Two of the most popular rock groups in Moscow are Ukrainian (Vopli Vidoplasova and Okean Elzy). Why should anyone on either side allow themselves to be used by nationalists out to sow hatred?

And while we're on the subject, there's nothing wrong with being a patriot, but a nationalist is a weak-minded individual. A great man once said a patriot is a man who loves his country and respects other countries, a nationalist is a man who loves his country and hates others. Which would you rather see representing your country?

[spanalot]

"a nationalist is a man who loves his country and hates others."

What do you call Putin when he has a tantrum and shuts off the gas to Europe in the middle of a record freeze.

By the way, you seem to have a lot of free time considering you are finishing a 25 year stint in the Army (or was it the Air Force) - and you never answered which assigned you to "spend six years" of your life interviewing Russians who fought in Viet Nam

[spanalot]

"Which is why you read propaganda mags."

Yes, I just read a great joke in the new Temnyky bulletin that you are getting tomorrow:
---
How many Russians does it take to fix a lightbulb in the Kremlin?

Answer: You Boot Licking lapdog of Soros, How Dare you insinuate the Russians are to blame for breaking the lightbulb.

Bolshevicks was international mostly non-russian citizens of Russian Empire. Russians were between bolshevicks but minority.
Between leadership of bolshevicks: Lenin-chuvashian, Stalin- georgian, Trotskii (the father - founder of Red Army) - jew, Kamenev- jew, Zinoviev -jew, Sveldlov- jew, Lunacharskii- ukranian, Podvoiskii - ukranian, Dzerzhinskii (the father-founder of CheKa-OGPU-NKWD) - polack.

So tell Your budy Yushchenko that Russia is strong and do what it wants!!!

[spanalot]

"Which is why you read propaganda mags."

Yes, I just read a great joke in the new Temnyky bulletin that you are getting tomorrow:
---
How many Russians does it take to fix a lightbulb in the Kremlin?

Answer: You Boot Licking lapdog of Soros, How Dare you insinuate the Russians are to blame for breaking the lightbulb.

Bolshevicks was international mostly non-russian citizens of Russian Empire. Russians were between bolshevicks but minority.
Between leadership of bolshevicks: Lenin-chuvashian, Stalin- georgian, Trotskii (the father - founder of Red Army) - jew, Kamenev- jew, Zinoviev -jew, Sveldlov- jew, Lunacharskii- ukranian, Podvoiskii - ukranian, Dzerzhinskii (the father-founder of CheKa-OGPU-NKWD) - polack.

So tell Your budy Yushchenko that Russia is strong and do what it wants!!!

[Angus MacGregor]

Entertaining and fascinating thread bump!!!

[spanalot]

Yes this is a good one - we outed the Putie Propaganda Brigade - caught them spouting the latest Temnyky directive verbatim.

http://eng.maidanua.org/node/486

[Romanov]

Angus - I'm sure you're not going to join spanalot in quoting "Zavtra" newspaper? Do a little background research before you applaud spanalot's use of a Communist-Nationalist publication.

[Romanov]

Tsk. Tsk. Can't debate me on the merits of your arguments so you try to disparage my loyal service to my country. When did you serve? For which country????

[Romanov]

"What do you call Putin when he has a tantrum and shuts off the gas to Europe in the middle of a record freeze."

Next time you're searching for all of my posts here, perhaps you would be wise to find what I wrote about that. I'll type real slow so you will understand: Putin's "gas war" is another misstep of his hamfistedness vis-a-vis the Ukraine. What about that do you NOT understand?

[Romanov]

Well, spanalot, are you going to continue to support "Zavtra": From YOUR link: "The following “temnyk” – a directive from the Presidential Administration has just been made public by the newspaper “Zavtra”. " And what is "Zavtra": "From the onset of the current Middle East crisis, two hard-line nationalist newspapers with the largest circulation of all non-liberally-tinted media, Zavtra and Sovetskaya Rossiya (combined circulation of about 150,000 copies a week,) have been painting pictures of Israel▓s atrocities against peaceful Palestinian youths and women as if taken from the pages of Pravda of 30 years ago. A joint statement by two editors-in-chief, Alexander Prokhanov of Zavtra and Valeriy Chikin of Sovetskaya Rossia, published in both newspapers contained references to Yasir Arafat as the "proven leader of the Palestinians" who became victims of the "Biblical genocide" of Israel. The two editors went as far as to say that "Palestinians and Russians have the same strategic enemy - occupation, the same strategic goal - freedom and independence," implying that both Palestine and Russia suffer under "Zionist invaders. In an October 17 editorial in Zavtra, Alexander Prokhanov wrote: "Israel is doomed. [┘] Red- hot Intifada is the fiery river, in which another myth of the 20th century melts and sinks to the bottom ≈ the theory of Zionism. According to designs of Herzl and Zhabotinsky, a small geopolitical monstrosity was created on the Arab lands. They have dragged there their tablets, as the ants drag eggs. They have imposed on America and Germany the annual tribute of five billions dollars. They pour napalm on the mosques and transform the whole nations into homeless survivors and refugees. They brainwash the whole world by their black dandruff, which they call ▒the ashes of Auschwitz▓. On the place of Israel, the Arabs will plant many fig trees and Lebanese cedars, they will create a National park. It will be the home of the large pretty Hebrew-speaking parrot." Still want to hang your credibility on this rag?

[sam_paine]

Wherever there is an as-hesperophobic-as-itself fellow-predator-posing-as-a-politician to patronize there'll be Peking's pack of psychopaths squandering its serfdom's confiscated wealth on enslaving the subjects of yet another sorry fascissocialistic surrogate.

Yeeeup.

[spanalot]

"Tsk. Tsk. Can't debate me on the merits of your arguments so you try to disparage my loyal service to my country"

No - I am fascinated that te military sent you to Russia to spend 6 years interviewing Russians that fought in VietNam.

I am not sure why you are teasing us with this revelation and I am not sure why you refuse to share this information with us. Instead, 95% OF YOUR POSTS ARE TO DO DAMAGE CONTROL FOR PUTIN.

I would rather here what you uncovered about Moscows secret war against us in Viet Nam.

[Romanov]

Yawn. Just the fact that you post that over and over again shows you have zero reading comprehension skills and/or selective memory.

Speaking of repetitiveness - Do you denounce the racist/xenophobic/anti-semetic/anti-American/anti-Capitalist/pro-Islamic/Pro-Communist newspaper "Zavtra" that you have hung your "credibilty" hat upon?

You know the only other "Americans" that have questioned my military service are those who hang out with Code Pink and Moveon.Org people. Tell your friends hello.

[Angus MacGregor]

Just an innocent bystander, I have taken no side.

[Romanov]

"No - I am fascinated that te military sent you to Russia to spend 6 years interviewing Russians that fought in VietNam."

Here ya go - I'll give you the answer again. Over 12,000 SOVIETS (Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Uzbeks, Tadjiks, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, Georgians, Azeris, Armenians, etc - Plus members from the Warsaw Pact countries) served in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam during the war. As such, I have traveled throughout the Soviet Union to interview these men.

What I do NOT understand is why you would belittle our mission of seeking information to provide the fullest possible accounting of American servicemen who went missing in action while serving their country. We OWE these men a full accounting. The fact that you would use your anger toward me for disagreeing with your Ukrainian-Nationalist politics to belittle that mission dishonors their memory.

[Leatherneck_MT]

I'm retired Military and I have never viewed the Russian state or Putin as anything more than what they are.

The continued enemy of my Country.

[spanalot]

That is a wonderful mission - interviewing 12000 Russian vets.

Now lets hear what you found out instead of what you do in 95% of your posts - acting as an apologist for Putin, to wit:
---
"2) The government apparatus was huge under Yeltsin, but has been significantly cut by Putin.
3) It's easier to do business in Putin's Russia - less red tape and people who can make decisions actually attend meetings
4) Putin's flat tax brought people "out of the shadows" and put money in the coffers instead of in off-shore accoutns
5) Russians feel they are better off now then they were in the past (something they were split on during Yeltsin)
6) Putin is cracking down on corruption and Robber Barons - BUT the WEST is trying to hamper his efforts. Berezovsky? He cries anti-Semitism and claims Putin was out to get him because Berezovsky criticized him. Hogwash
Gusinsky? See Berezovsky
Khodorkovsky - Same deal. So, why would you not agree with Putin on his position vis-a-vis these men - after all, they're the types you described and he put them out of business. There's a lot more work to be done, that's for sure.

I'll say it again - I agree with Berlusconi - Putin is proudly anti-Communist. Why don't you look at what Zyuganov or Lapshin have said about Putin and then tell me how Putin is a "friend" of the Commies??"

[spanalot]

"I'm retired Military and I have never viewed the Russian state or Putin as anything more than what they are.

The continued enemy of my Country."

Worth repeating!

[Romanov]

Sadly Spanalot you do not seem to grasp the English language. Those statements in no way indicate that I am allied with Putin. They point out FACTS. Not hyped propaganda. You continue to use the communist-learned tactic of trying to twist what people actually WRITE into something they did NOT. Shame on you.

[Romanov]

Leatherneck,
You've joined us late. Let me tell you what has actually been going on. Spanalot has been calling military veterans traitors for pointing out inaccurate statements he has made about Russia. By pointing out these inaccurate statements, spanalot has decided that we've been pledging alligience to Russia and to Putin. Nothing is further from the truth. Instead, this person, who has NOT served in our military (note the "our military" ask him who he served), decides that we're traitors for disagreeing with him.

So, now he belittles a mission I'm involved in and heaps scorn upon it because I won't back up his pro-Ukrainian nationalism that he spews on here.

BTW, Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc., have stated Russia is not the enemy. Doesn't mean they're our allies, but...