You Want to Understand Fanatics? Understand Julius Rosenberg and His Ilk

HNN ^ | 1-16-06 | Steven Usdin

[sono]

Nonetheless, comprehending how fanaticism’s roots lie in alienation from society, hopeless living conditions, and a desire to advance an ideological, romantic or religious fantasy--and how attractive it is for people swept up in a secret world, especially young men, to commit crimes--is relevant to understanding and fighting terrorism.

Perhaps the most telling weapon in the GWOT is W's relentless push for Democracy in the Middle East. This is why OIF is so crucial to our future.

[Little Bill]

My family were in the West during the depression, the depression started there in the Mid Twenties, farm, mine or starve, there was no choice.

Why did they and a lot of the people, original settlers, move to the right. The people in Utah, Idaho, and Eastern Washington and Oregon, draw a line in the sand after the initial New Deal, I haven't got a clue.

[CBart95]

All of it irrelevant. Murder is murder.

So is treason.

Steve U gets an A for dredging up 50-year old quasi- sympathetic silliness to somehow place criminal depredation in an understandable framework.

[Cicero]

Interesting article. But it puts too much emphasis on poverty, want, and alienation.

Billions of people in the world are poor, but only some of them turn to violence as an answer.

Many of the fellow travellers of that time were children of the rich and privileged.

The real poison is Communism. Or Islam. Or any similar system designed to seize power and control others, conceived by evil human beings. If you like, the real problem is original sin and human perversity.

But one thing that certainly needs to be pointed out is that bringing Muslims into western societies doesn't necessarily make westerners out of them. It may just as easily make them feel alienated and oppressed. And it may expose them to that sick mixture of Communism and greed that they can learn from western societies.

Pol Pot was educated in Paris. Lenin learned his ideas from German revolutionaries. Mao also learned some of his worst ideas from the sicknesses of western intellectuals.

[okie01]

Perhaps the most telling weapon in the GWOT is W's relentless push for Democracy in the Middle East. This is why OIF is so crucial to our future.

The President and (most) conservatives realize that, to fight an idea, you must bring a competing idea to the battle.

At one time, the left thought their idea was superior. But they no longer recognize the validity of any ideas.

[nopardons]

bttt

[Gordongekko909]

I agree with you, but I'd take it a step further: if wanting something better for oneself is what leads to extremist ideology (like communism being a path to affluence for Rosenberg), then Muslim extremists would be overthrowing their theocracies left and right in an effort to be more like the United States, not attacking us.

Islamofascism is not communism; communism is (nominally) a materialist ideology, while Islamofascists actually dislike Western "opulence" (or at least claim to; methinks there's some jealousy involved). Different breed of cat.

[ex-snook]

"Morality begins at the point of a gun." — Mao Zedong, Chinese revolutionary and national leader (1893-1976)

Democracy also?

[Michael.SF.]

At one time, the left thought their idea was superior.

In all sincerity.........they still do. And they will accept no other ideas then their own, or those that will help their cause.

[MirrorField]

All of it irrelevant. Murder is murder. So is treason.

To quote Obi-Wan Kenobi, "You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to... depend greatly on our own point of view."
People have reasons to do what they do. If you don't understand (note that I don't say accept) their motivations, their actions will remain equally opaque. And your enemy has gained a considerable advantage due to your ignorance...

[okie01]

You really think democracy is being "imposed" on Iraq?

A 70% turnout suggests otherwise...

[Gordongekko909]

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Sir Winston Churchill

British politician (1874 - 1965)

“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

Barry Goldwater

American Politician and Senator, 1909-1998

[MirrorField]

The basic dynamic is same. Instead of powerty, muslim extremists are fighting perceived corruption and immorality. And instead of future socialist paradise, they're fighting for paradise in afterlife. Same cat under different fur pattern.

[Dan(9698)]

Bump

[okie01]

And [the Left] will accept no other ideas then their own, or those that will help their cause.

Just what are their ideas now, exactly?

Aside from "regaining power", of course...

[ARA]

substitute Democrat for Islam.... it's all the same...

C

[Gordongekko909]

Okay, we've established that homicidal extremists are people who really, really don't like something, and are willing to kill (themselves, if necessary) to get rid of it.

The similarities between communism and Islamofascism end there.

You might be right in a certain way, though: capitalism and wealth, while not directly antithetical to the root causes of Islamic extremism, certainly offer an excellent alternative to it. Several notable exceptions aside (OBL, Patty Hearst, although she's kind of a special case, having been kidnapped and all), people don't blow themselves up if they've got good jobs and live stable lives.

Of course, most of your cocktail-chuckers are teenagers or early twentysomethings, especially in France, occasionally too young to be considered "adults" and care about that sort of thing...

[MarkL]

Even if he could have afforded the tuition, Barr, like most of his classmates at City College of New York, would probably not have been accepted at elite colleges because they had unwritten but strictly enforced quotas on Jews.

Never mind that the Soviet Union always oppressed Jews, and not by just placing entrance quotas to colleges. But I'm sure that sort of thing was never mentioned in the CPUSA newspapers. Just like none of the other incredible human rights violations that these "useful idiots" claimed to be against, were reported, either in the CPUSA papers, or for that matter, the NY Times, as would be seen later, in the lies and propaganda of Durante.

Mark

[rdb3]

Just like none of the other incredible human rights violations that these "useful idiots" claimed to be against, were reported, either in the CPUSA papers, or for that matter, the NY Times, as would be seen later, in the lies and propaganda of Durante.

CPUSA, New York Times... Distinction without a difference, you understand.

This is a ch__ch. What's missing?