Posted on 01/10/2006 7:59:50 PM PST by starbase
"Probably requires more energy to run the process than it is worth it to get out."
Actually the process fuels itself in creating the oil. It is extracting the energy bound by polymers (organics). Only about 15% of the energy unbound by the process is used to fuel the reactor vessel.
http://www.ecologicinvestor.com/news/readfullnews.asp?NewsID=358
DK
"Probably requires more energy to run the process than it is worth it to get out."
Actually the process fuels itself in creating the oil. It is extracting the energy bound by polymers (organics). Only about 15% of the energy unbound by the process is used to fuel the reactor vessel.
http://www.ecologicinvestor.com/news/readfullnews.asp?NewsID=358
DK
"Probably requires more energy to run the process than it is worth it to get out."
Actually the process fuels itself in creating the oil. It is extracting the energy bound by polymers (organics). Only about 15% of the energy unbound by the process is used to fuel the reactor vessel.
http://www.ecologicinvestor.com/news/readfullnews.asp?NewsID=358
DK
Computer burp, sorry!!!
DK
This will work great in blue states because they have so much more horsesh-t.
Lotta problems with this. Search the web. If it sounds too good to be true...
A number of people suspect this company of being not all they're cracked up to be. For example:
http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/2005/Changing-World-Technologies-Palmer9apr05.htm
However, there may well be some promising technology on the horizon in this area...
Here's another interesting and relevant post, from http://www.thealders.net/blogs/2004/05/22/changing-world-technologies/
Here is some food for thought about Changing-world technologies. My name is Dean Gokel (randigokel @ earth link.net). I am a professional research scientist holding degrees in both chemistry and geology. The last 18 years has been spent running my state certified environmental laboratory in North Carolina. Changing World is keeping “tight lipped” for good reason, they are mostly smoke and mirrors living “high off the hog (turkey) based solely on hype. They are doing quite well at it, no need to crash the party so to speak, 60 million and climbing requires no boat rocking. I wish my laboratory could generate the millions they have, but we are professional researchers willing to validate our or anyone who boasts technical claims with our chemists and analytical equipment, no hype, no bigger than life journalism just science. I have spent millions of my own money (all of my money) on our biomass program and can report very detailed information as to what chemicals and fuels generated in our bio-reactor. We named it the “Waste Elimination Biostill.” WE DO NOT CLAIM wild things like “anything to oil” as it is not possible to convert lead into gold!
We can only bio-react organic rich materials like poultry, hog and cattle wastes, hog lagoon wastes, organic chemical wastes etc. We are more than willing to share our analytical data, including gas chromatograph mass spectroscopy. Anybody wishing to touch, taste, smell or see our clean burning fuels are welcome to come to Raleigh North Carolina to see it FIRST HAND. I have retained all test batch samples and data for ALL QUALIFIED investigators to review. I hope Stetts Stettler can read this! (his comments published 10/5/04)
The BIGGEST problem with our technology is that the local government found out about us. Less than 24 hours after our head line new story on WRAL 5 August 29, 2005 (see their web site for past stories) guess what happened? We were slapped with an injunction to STOP MAKING BIO-SYNTHETIC FUEL AND WERE ORDERED TO DISSASEMBLE our reactor. We were found GUILTY of being a “NUISENCE” THERE WERE NO SPECIFIC REGULATIONS SITED OR VIOLATED IN OUR CONDUCT OF WORK. Think about it, the government LOOSES major tax revenues when individuals can generate their own fuels instead of going to the gas station. They do not get paid road tax per gallon, they do not get land fill taxes, they do not get to fine hog lagoons for spills and generally do not want to loose control. WE ALL are being held hostage. A gas station typically makes 3 to 5 cents per gallon over what they buy it for, but the government makes 39 cents in taxes plus they get under ground tank registration fees and fines in the for leaks here in North Carolina ($10,000 or more per incident when surface water is impacted, federal clean water act). Our bio-gasoline costs less than 30 cents per gallon to produce and the state of North Carolina remembers their high school history lessons, specifically the Boston Tea party (over taxation with out representation).
We were performing a demonstration of our technology to some potential investors as I was trying to raise capital because I went broke because of this project. Biomass conversion is REAL SCIENCE, the Federal Government is spending millions in their own research labs, but just like the cure to cancer, it is better to perpetually study, than to Solve a problem. When the public finds out the truth, the government looses billions, they just will not let this happen with out a fight. I welcome ALL who are truely interested in investing or validating ONCE AND FOR ALL that biomass conversion to fuels and chemicals of economic value CAN AND DOES work, just not in the manner that Changing World has tried to develop. They have way too much energy input, both in heating and pressurizing for a truely profitable process, ever!
According to FIRST HAND information, their oil is not high quality and will never be utilizing the process they developed. I am sure none of you will ever get to the “bottom line” of their story. Please keep reading their hype then COME SEE ME, I have the real answer. I too have filed a patent and am waiting for this long process to finish. Once a patent has been filed, one can operate as if the patent has been approved, no need to hide behind it. I do fine it fascinating that the patent office replied to my patent in less than 30 days. They granted a domestic license BUT denied me the opportunity to release this information to international markets. They sited …”existing laws relating to espionage and the National Security of export of technical data.” They further stated I must read and comply with “other agencies, particularly the Office of Defense Trade Controls, Department of State (with respect to Arms, Munitions and the Implements of War (22 CFR 121-128)The office of Export Administration, Department of Commerce (15 CFR 370.10 (j)) the office of Foreign Assets Control, Department of treasury (31 CFR Parts 500 +) and the Department of Energy.” Why did they respond to my patent so quickly? Answer, details presented in my patent application PROVED we are for real and this SCARES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!! I hope readers will contact me personally so I can Prove the science of biomass conversion is REAL and CWT is not as grand as the journalists claim. I ask where’s the science?
Dean Gokel — 10:27 am 12/3/2005
"Computer burp, sorry!!!"
Three in a row? More like hiccups, lol.
But, back to the content of your reply, if 85% of the fuel output of this process remains, with only 15% being used to power the thermal depolymerization process, what, then, is the hangup? It does sound tremendously appealing, from both a waste disposal and an alternative fuel source perspective. Is this the one that also creates carbon black? I may be confusing competing efforts ... come to think of it, it is different; that involved used tires.
But, what are the byproducts, other than fuel(s)? The equipment must be hideously expensive, otherwise, this would be in more widespread testing by now.
This will work great in blue states because they have so much more horsesh-t.<<
We could just back a couple of those flatbeds to congress and end dependence on foreign oil.
DK
Here, I'll just post the text:
Cary Man Says Chickens Could Be Used To Fuel Vehicles
Some Neighboring Businesses Not Pleased With Smell Coming From Man's Idea
POSTED: 9:20 am EDT August 30, 2005
UPDATED: 12:27 pm EDT August 30, 2005
CARY, N.C. -- A Cary man said he has found the answer to our fuel problem and it involves chickens. It would cost you pennies a gallon, but does it pass the smell test?
Don't throw out those chicken scraps after you finish eating. Dean Gokel believes they could be the answer to the country's gas problems.
Dean Gokel, a scientist who works out of a lab in Cary, said he can take chicken scraps and turn it into synthetic fuel that can run your car.
"I'm making fuel for pennies a gallon," he said.
Gokel created a dark, sludge-like fuel made from chicken parts. Gokel also said his fuel burns cleaner than diesel fuel or gasoline. Eventually, he said, he could figure out how to mass-produce the stuff as a real alternative to gasoline and oil.
Gokel has already been successful at using the bio-fuel to power small engines.
"I'm making small batches five gallons at a time, but I need to make a large-scale batch so I can tell the world to put it in a car and drive away," he said.
However, some businesses in Cary are not pleased with Gokel's idea.
Officials said several neighboring businesses have complained to the city that the stench is so bad they have to go outside their offices to catch a breath. Gokel acknowledges the problem but argues it is the price of progress.
"There's an odor. Sure. There are rules about odors, but everyone's trash stinks, and I'm trying to put it to use and do something with it," said Gokel.
The city has ordered Gokel to stop making the fuel until he can figure out a way to better ventilate the odor. Gokel contends his landlord should fix the ventilation system.
There was a long thread on this a while back. That article detailed the financial woes of the company in question.
Bio diesel has a tax break that was .50 to $1.00/gal.Let's think about the mechanics of that tax break and exactly how it works, where the money comes from, etc.
Seems to me I've heard that the Missouri plant was or is going to be shut down due to a massive stink that was covering a large area around the plant. Also, I'm very sceptical of any enterprise that uses "Changing World" in its name.
I see no purpose to read further. Just another nut tacking advantage of people.
"Gokel contends his landlord should fix the ventilation system."
Well, good for him, but ...even though I usually root for the little guy, the above statement screams "CRANK."
And, I'll bet he's catching hell, doing this within the "Containment Area," lol. They get bent out of shape over what color you paint your house.
Large high pressure vessels operated at high temp...pricey.
Read my linked article if you want to know about the process. The pilot plant was claiming $15/barrel hoping production to go to $7.
$80 was a bit much so the company was either scamming for investors or had rosey predictions on scaleability.
It does make oil from organics, it is just the cost that is prohibitive.
DK
Actually the article says the shutdown has been ordered, but the company has the right to appeal before complying, so it's still working as of right now.
I wonder if it could convert garbage in existing landfills into oil?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.