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"Red Star Rogue" by Kenneth Sewell and Clint Richmond
The Morning Paper - Special Book Review Edition
| 01/07/06
| vanity
Posted on 01/07/2006 6:13:10 PM PST by genefromjersey
click here to read article
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To: genefromjersey
Sounds like an interesting book.
2
posted on
01/07/2006 6:20:43 PM PST
by
Little_shoe
("For Sailor MEN in Battle fair since fighting days of old have earned the right.to the blue and gold)
To: Little_shoe
Link please!
Link please!
Link please!
Link please!
3
posted on
01/07/2006 6:27:50 PM PST
by
Phsstpok
(There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
To: genefromjersey
Bump till the bubble heads show up.
4
posted on
01/07/2006 6:28:59 PM PST
by
11Bush
To: genefromjersey; Little_shoe
5
posted on
01/07/2006 6:29:19 PM PST
by
Phsstpok
(There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
To: genefromjersey
a small group of Stalinist holdovers in the Kremlin and the KGB ... orchestrated this attack in order to bring about a nuclear exchange between the United States and China.China had no missiles capable of hitting the US prior to the early '80s.
We are also supposed to believe nobody in the KGB knew of the fail-safe devices? The KGB was, by definition, infiltrated into every part of Soviet society.
6
posted on
01/07/2006 6:48:50 PM PST
by
Restorer
To: Restorer
"Nuclear exchange" doesn't automatically mean missiles. Although it's hard to imagine the Chinese successfully flying H-bomb laden aircraft all the way to the U.S. with impunity. As the article said, China would have been devastated.
7
posted on
01/07/2006 7:09:02 PM PST
by
squidly
To: Restorer
One of the functions of the zampolit was to be a pain in the @$$, I mean enforce the political orthodoxy within the military unit. In this case the submarine. One of the other functions was also launch order authentication. The go order would travel through two channels, the military command and the political directorate. So the submarine commander and the zampolit would receive the SIOP order through separate channels, or at least separate messages with different encryption. Supposedly provided some redundancy. Then again anything could be broken.
As for the KGB on board the boat not knowing about the failsafes on the warheads, it seems likely. The "atomic cities" were pretty much closed and isolated, those working in those facilities rarely permitted to travel or have contact outside.
8
posted on
01/07/2006 7:27:28 PM PST
by
Fred Hayek
(Liberalism is a mental disorder)
To: Fred Hayek
It would be highly likely the guys on the boat wouldn't know about the failsafes. But I bet the guys who planned the operation, supposedly including the Director of the KGB and his staff, would have known of them.
9
posted on
01/07/2006 7:36:52 PM PST
by
Restorer
To: genefromjersey
I just got for a birthday present and will start reading it on my next plane flight. Interesting concepts which also tie into the Glomar Explorer.
10
posted on
01/07/2006 7:39:45 PM PST
by
103198
To: genefromjersey
My recollection of the articles and documentaries about the lost submarine do not include references to damage such as is described here. I do remember that during the recovery effort one of the missiles slipped from the tube and gave the recovery people some very nervous moments as it fell nose first back to the sea. They feared the warhead might go off. This all seems inconsistant.
That being said I think there is a good basis to think the submarine was indeed on an unauthorized attack mission, based largely on the USSR navy's recovery efforts being centered a thousand miles from the loss site. I've always felt it likely the submarine was scuttled by members of her own crew to prevent launch.
11
posted on
01/07/2006 7:57:22 PM PST
by
tlb
To: Restorer
Au contraire ! China had missiles more than capable of hitting Pearl Harbor from 350 miles away.They did not (yet) have the capability of firing from underwater that the Soviets had, or of firing accurately on the move : hence, per the authors, the K129 surfaced unneccessarily at a fixed meridian point - as a Chinese boat of that time would have had to do.
12
posted on
01/08/2006 4:33:41 AM PST
by
genefromjersey
(So much to flame;so little time !)
To: genefromjersey
The book review I wrote is a "tease". I would strongly suggest you visit your library or bookseller and obtain it,as there is an enormous amount of information I have merely hinted at.
13
posted on
01/08/2006 4:37:12 AM PST
by
genefromjersey
(So much to flame;so little time !)
To: genefromjersey
My point was that China could not have engaged the US in anything resembling an all-out "nuclear exchange." Certainly a nuke could have taken out Pearl, which would have meant most or all of Oahu, but that would not have significantly damaged the US.
Odds are that we will sooner or later lose a city, probably DC, to a terrorist nuke. That won't defeat us either, and the resultant "exchange" will be totally one-sided.
14
posted on
01/08/2006 8:55:52 AM PST
by
Restorer
To: knighthawk; neverdem
15
posted on
05/22/2006 12:49:23 PM PDT
by
GOPJ
(By definition, "connecting the dots" involves getting to see the dots... -- Mark Steyn)
To: 103198
...which also tie into the Glomar Explorer. What's a "glomar explorer"?
16
posted on
05/22/2006 12:50:53 PM PDT
by
GOPJ
(By definition, "connecting the dots" involves getting to see the dots... -- Mark Steyn)
To: GOPJ
17
posted on
05/22/2006 1:20:00 PM PDT
by
neverdem
(May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
To: neverdem; JohnBovenmyer
The Hughes Glomar Explorer [HGE] was built in 1973 by Sun Shipbuilding and Drydock Co. for an intricate CIA undertaking. The mission of Glomar Explorer was to raise a Soviet nulear submarine that had sunk in the Pacific, resting on the ocean floor nearly 17,000 ft. (5,200 m) down. The Soviet Golf-II Class ballistic missile submarine sank on April 11, 1968, approximately 750 miles northwest of Hawaii. Naval intelligence at Pearl Harbor had tracked the submarine and learned of its fate through underwater listening devices. After months of futile searching by Soviet vessels, it became apparent that only the US knew the location of the sunken submarine. Oceanographers have long known that parts of the Pacific sea floor at depths between 14,000 ft. and 17,000 ft. are carpeted with so-called manganese nodules, potato-size chunks of manganese mixed with iron, nickel, cobalt and other useful metals. In the 1970s, Howard Hughes used the Deep Ocean Mining Project [DOMP] search for nodules as a cover for building the ship Glomar Explorer. Global Marine supervised construction of the Glomar Explorer , at a cost in excess of $200 million dollars, and operated it from 1973 to 1975 under contract to the US government. Glomar Explorer went to sea on June 20, 1974, found the sub, and began to bring a portion of it to the surface. The Soviets watched the "deep-sea mining" operation with interest, but did not attempt to thwart it. An accident during the lifting operation caused the fragile hulk to break apart, resulting in the loss of a critical portion of the submarine, its nuclear missles and crypto codes. However, according to other accounts, material recovered included three nuclear missles, two nuclear torpedoes, the ship's code machine, and various code books. Interesting -- thanks for the info.
18
posted on
05/22/2006 1:51:49 PM PDT
by
GOPJ
(By definition, "connecting the dots" involves getting to see the dots... -- Mark Steyn)
To: GOPJ
Indeed, this is the kinda stuff you can make movies about.
19
posted on
05/23/2006 12:03:31 PM PDT
by
knighthawk
(We will always remember We will always be proud We will always be prepared so we may always be free)
To: Restorer
I’m sure they did know about them and thought they could work around or over them.
20
posted on
09/08/2008 8:34:55 PM PDT
by
GWHH
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