Posted on 12/24/2005 8:04:58 AM PST by carlo3b
"It's just semantics", "no big deal", "you're just spouting platitudes", ... over and over and over. I've heard it again and again and again. To answer your question in an earlier post. Yes, you are a liberal, it's obvious.
The rest of your response only serves to make my point. Life is unfair, so we should be. Life discriminates so the government should. You can respond. I'm tired of trying to force feed you some basic amercian principles. So have the last word.
You are being obtuse. I cannot marry whomever I choose either! The restraints on us are EQUAL. It isn't just my characterization, it is FACT.
Th government and the wishes of the majority are restricting them. This denys equal access to government, liberty, and the pursuit of happeness.
No. Homosexuals can marry and avail themselves of all the benefits you listed. NO LAW ANYWHERE says that if you are homosexual you are not allowed to marry. They must, however, make their choices within the law, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US.
The rest of your response only serves to make my point. Life is unfair, so we should be. Life discriminates so the government should.
Marriage is not a pact between two people to reproduce. You can do that without marriage and couples who can't reporduce get married. Should the government test for sterility before giving a marriage license? Anopther ignorant illogical argument. You should know better.
You can respond. I'm tired of trying to force feed you some basic amercian principles. So have the last word.
Another twist. Homosexuals cannot marry someone the love because the government forbids it. If you love the opposite sex you can marry. You think that's okay and they have equal access and liberty. I don't.
I'm tired of you twisting and spinning and then calling me obtuse. Have the last word and declare victory.
Any progress is better than not even trying.. Can't you think of one single thing that you would be willing to budge an inch for the benefit of the future.
What would you think if I told you that we are a lot closer than we are lead to believe on several subjects that are bedrock principles of ours.
It's been tried again and again. I have tried and so have many others. We are not "closer than we are lead to believe." That's a fiction perpetrated by liberals to draw us into their web. "Budging" is what has brought us to the current state. It's well past time to quit being enablers.
we are a lot closer than we are lead to believe on several subjects that are bedrock principles of ours.. such as Gun Control, Abortion, and the radical Gay agenda.. Many Democrats are a lot closer to us than their own party.
NO! NO! and NO! since you are at heart a liberal you are certainly closer but I am not!!!
Liberals can't be compromised with and I have my doubts about moderates. I think most moderates are just to CS to stand up for their beliefs. If you want to love liberals and moderates go right ahead, but you will suffer for it because they will try to drag you all the way to their side. To them, there is no compromise, only their point of view and no other.
Right now one of their points of view is to get me and my family killed by terrorists so they can grab power, to deprive me of my right to say what I want when I want, to deprive me of my right to defend myself and to deprive everyone the right to worship as they please. All these things are in our Constitution and they want to trash it. I will never compromise on the Constitution, therefore I cannot compromise with libs and moderates.
Carlo..I've thought about this quite a bit today (while finishing my baking!) since I first read your post this morning.
Each time I came up with an idea I thought I could meet a liberal halfway on, I realized something. When talking with liberals- there is never an "If, then..." We do not agree on the very fundamentals in the FIRST place..the first place being the "if" such and such is true, "then" will you agree, or disagree ...that...etc.
I'm sure there are more eloquent words to describe my idea- but as I thought about your post it began to dawn on me..we have no starting point with libs. No mutually agreed on reality. Compromise? Whether or not it's desirable- is almost beside the point.
For example- in a marriage, or business partnership, let's say the two people have differing ideas on how to accomplish a goal. We see this all the time, don't we? One gives a little..the other concedes a bit, eventually an agreement is reached.
My experience with liberals makes me always wonder what their GOAL is. If I think I've pinned it down..before I know it, they've changed it. The more I've seen this- the more I conclude they haven't principals...they have ideas.. These ideas change with their mood, the market, the season, you name it.
You see the problem? We share space with libs..and I'm hard pressed to find much else. We don't even share a common history- as they're continually attempting to re-write it.
I appreciate your attempt Carlo-and thought it would be an easy thing to do- but find on reflection- it is not.
I will abandoned my knee-jerk reaction to the insults that you use to replace a coherent argument and simply say that you and so many forget the advances that we have made in the last 20 years.. We are far from where we want to be, but a lot closer than we realize to success than failure..
Our achievements have stalled because phony Republican politicians have infiltrated our ranks, and stymied our advances. These few traitors have set our disastrous course, and left us appearing weak and rudderless..
The people of this nation have slowly moved to the right. Witness the last 5 elections as proof of this movement. Most of us are former Democrats that were persuaded more by the actions of the socialist, lying, perverted, Democrats than the positive actions of the Republicians..
Sounded eloquent to me.
Merry Christmas!
Your heart is in the right place, God bless you. The only thing I would add is that abortion in the cases of rape, incest, or life of the mother is in no way in jeapordy. No matter what happens, you can be that those exceptions will be enshrined in law.
I think it's truly conservative to conserve the environment by not poisoning it or using good bottom land for houses that could be growing food.
I also am fine with baby seals not being clubbed.
I am also in favor of industrial hemp being grown commercially.
Merry Christmas!
But carlo, you're giving in waaay too much. You think liberals will give you the same surrender? No way!
You don't really want that. I think you'd too many conservative husbands like me who are armed to the teeth and aren't about let anyone, conservative or not, bring harm to even the most liberal of family members.
Carlos, I think I understand your concerns. I too tire of the hyperbole that surrounds politics so much these day. The whole "kill the liberals" mantra, and the converse is just silly.
I am delighted things turned out for the better. My Wife and I keep you in our prayers...you culinary expertise has provided us... and lots of others I'm sure...with very happy tummies!
Quick aside...as I approach the 60's I'm told that I have to cut back on my artery clogging, booze filled, diabetes prone diet...sigh. It was a great ride though!
Secondly...and more to the point of your thread. I agree with you almost 100%...which is kinda odd because I am most likely more right wing than most FReepers.
However there is a point where we have to come together. As you mention I too can >tolerate< gay unions, although I wouldn't go so far as to actually call them marriages. As long as they keep to themselves and don't try to change the rest of us...fine. Behind closed doors and all that.
As far as abortion you may ..or may not...recall some of my posts regarding that subject and how it relates to the conservative agenda. Abortion is only one of many issues I consider when I vote. I prefer someone who is not an abortion proponant, however if it is between someone with a blatantly socialist agenda who promises an end to abortion and someone on the right who is not a strong abortion opponant but is a strong conservative on other issues... my vote goes to the more conservative candidate.
There is some racial prejudice, however not all of it is white on black. I belive that is a two way street today...sadly. I also believe there is a time to forgive and forget and get on with moving our country from the cesspool of socialism back onto the constitutional track>
Heck I'm of Scot/Irish/Celt descent and I forgive the limeys for what they did to my ancestors. I even bought a Jaguar once!
We are all here in this seemingly absurd and incomprehensible condition. It's Plato and the cave alegory. What is real and what is imagined, and does it really matter?
Lets all cherish, enjoy and most of all appreciate that precious gift God has given us! How silly it is for us to squabble over relatively petty things! That in and of itself shows how limited we are in our comprehension of reality, and how vane we are.
Now I'm NOT proposing backing down on the conservative agenda....compromising with leftists...ignoring or modifying to any extent The Constitution our founding fathers, guided by God gave us. I am propsing...in perhaps a too Presbyterian moment...to lead by example. That is what I try to do when I interact with my very leftist friends at the local watering holes.
In that case confrontation is virtually useless, perhaps counter productive. Instead I first try to gain their trust and respect, then slowly present a conservative's ...well my...view of what the current news is.
I am happy to report that looking back over the past five years or so several hard core lefties have begun to move to the right.
Slowly but surely conservatives are winning the fight for America.
Carlo I can't express what an asset you've been to FR over the years! Even FReepers break off into our own little interest groups, but notice how many responses are posted to one of your threads. I really believe that FReepers love of food is second only to our love of country.
While some may view your posting as appeasement, I do not. I stand with you, especially in this Holy Time of the year.
Enough of my rambling.
How ARE you doing my FRiend? I trust you will be able to take part in a cruise in the next year and do the things you enjoy. You have a wonderful and infectious love of life ...and food...and politics...and country.
Hopefully the rough spots are over and you can move on.
This post has rambled on WAY too long, so let me close by wishing you the very merriest of Christmases and wonderful and prosperous New Year!
prisoner6
Thanks for your shallow response and weightless validation. I only wish you would spend your brief attention span on the facts and less on proving the old maxim that it is better to shut up in the face of an on slot of knowledge, than to open your mouth to prove that you are bereft of all salvation.
to deprive me of my right to say what I want when I want, to deprive me of my right to defend myself ..
Sorry neighbor I gave my share of our fight for freedom on a battlefield.. and you?
Not true in the least. Those on the left who absolutely cannot stand those on the right are a small minority of liberals. Likewise, the number of conservatives who walk around with a chip against liberals 24/7 are also a minority. The vast majority of people, liberal and conservative alike get along fine despite their political differences.
Excellent comments. If it were truly private, no one would know or care.
Kind of like the Texas vs Lawrence sodomy decision. If people kept in the bedroom what's supposed to stay there, no one would know or care. But they didn't really want that; they want to change society.
That's ok Pukin, this family will pray for you anyway on this Christmas Eve. Even the very liberal Mrs. Melas. Merry Christmas.
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