SCROOGE: "Now your making me happy!"
Posted on 12/14/2005 11:44:20 AM PST by frankjr
Don't pat yourself on the back to hard there...
Yeah, sure. I didn't realize that failing to use my tax money to clean off church parking lots will cause them all the churches to close down. With out churches maybe those obnoxious government subsidized nuns that stand at the intersection on my way home with their "Honk for Peace" and "America out of Iraq" placards will die already.
"Of course. “Don’t do anything nice for anybody if you ain’t doing it for me.”
Such is the way of the world these days. It's cold, impersonal, and nitpicky, but at least ain't nobody getting nothing you ain't getting."
It was good to see you go wrong in the beginning of your post. Easier to dispute.
No, this doesn't constitute the establishment of a religion. The Catholic religion was established 1972 years ago.
This is a recognition of a religion and thus constitutionally protected.
"Establishment of a religion," constitutionally speaking, means putting one above others, as England does with the Anglican Church. That is the specific example the Founding Fathers had in mind.
Recognition of religions has been held constitutional.
Wow. You're resentful.
Can the publicly paid for police department be sent to a Church to break up a disturbance by fellow parishioners?
"Don't pat yourself on the back to hard there..."
I'm not. I was accused of being uncharitable. I'm not. Folks around my neighborhood all do stuff like this for those who can't do it for themselves. It's expected.
Guy's not at home? A neighbor removes the snow. Elderly folks live nearby? Someone does the job.
And this is no small town. It's the city of Saint Paul, Minnesota. Same thing happens in every neighborhood here. It's a friendly place. When I get too old to do my own snow removal, I'm sure someone will help me out, too.
"yet their parking lots are plowed first."
They are, since when? Any district I've ever lived in plowed their own lots. And even if your districts lots are plowed by a city or county entity what's the beef about them being plowed first?
Public Schools plow their own lots?
Every time it snows, a group of the church members show up with their shovels and snowblowers and clear the parking lot and the walkways. There are usually about 20 of them. They're done in an hour.
As you said, that’s likely what happened here too, except the church member had a big government truck at his disposal and likely did it in about fifty precious seconds on the town clock.
But now he won’t do it anymore because some self-righteous whinger complained. Now that fifty seconds goes right back into the government ledger where it belongs.
I'm not whining.
Of course not.
Absolutely. That's their job. They'll come to your house, too, if you call them. Same with the fire department.
The DPS snow removal crews' job is to clear the public roads. They won't come to your house, or to any private property. It's not their job. In fact, it's illegal for them to do so. If the snowplow stopped off and cleared some employee's drive or the mayor's drive, the uproar would be instantaneous.
Churches are private property. Like all private property, they are responsible for their own snow removal. It's right in the city ordinances, I'm sure, just like it is in my city.
Again, did they plow ALL churches' parking lots? Just some? Which ones?
Godbout needs to get some coal in his stocking.
SCROOGE: "Now your making me happy!"
"These churches have no more reason to expect taxpayer dollars to be used to clear their parking lot than I have to have my driveway plowed."
Just to be clear, the article does NOT say that the churches in question asked the lots to be plowed, expected them to be plowed or are pissed that they will no longer be plowed. The article only says: "Fraine [Town Administrator] said the practice of clearing the church parking lots with town snow plows "has been going on ever since we’ve had plows," and was endorsed by the late Wilfred Arcand Jr. when he was the Department of Public Works director."
As suggested, they will now either pay someone to plow or volunteers will plow for them.
I don't want people to think the churches asked for the plowing or are whining about it now.
Sorry, I should have used the sarcasm notice. I of course know that plowing a church lot does not establish a religion. But someone sees this as a threat to the very constitution. Why else call on the ACLU? I agree with you.
Have a blessed and Merry Christmas.
"Again, did they plow ALL churches' parking lots? Just some? Which ones?"
The article says "Two other churches in town, the First Baptist Church in the center of town and the Bellingham Bible Baptist Church on Hartford Avenue have not been plowed by the town, but Fraine said the town would have provided the same assistance to those churches if they had ever requested it."
Why isn't the police coming to a Church to provide a "service" (Breaking up a fight, etc...) the Establishment of Religion?
As someone else said, what has happened to common sense and supporting the community, including the religious community? The churches and synagogues do so much for the community year round, with charity work of all kinds. It seems extremely petty and short-sighted of the city to stop plowing because some guy with a chip on his shoulder complains.
And to the people who own businesses and are whining because they have to pay for plowing - get over it.
"Public Schools plow their own lots?"
They do here in Saint Paul. The school district has its own snow removal equipment. While the DPW plows are out all night removing snow from the streets, the school district crews are clearing the school lots. The kids have to get to school.
In heavy snows, there are sometimes 1 or 2 hour delays for school starting times, but only for one day.
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