Posted on 12/11/2005 6:50:49 PM PST by Your Nightmare
Wow, looking over this "article" and some of the replies...so many distorted, deceptive, and ignorant statements, who has the time to address them ALL? Fallacies spread like wildfire, it's easy to spread them isn't it? Much harder to address them tactfully.
So many scarecrow arguments ripe for the torch, but it seems like others here have more than enough kerosene. I just wanted to point out that this Laurence Vance seems like a tinfoil wearing, impotent idealogue. Did he type this in his bomb shelter full of canned goods and 19th century muskets? Let's look at his credentials....um, "adjunct instructor" at Pensacola Junior College. Wow. Impressive. A community college in the Florida panhandle vs. Alan Greenspan, numerous respected economists from TOP universities, business associations, etc. If you buy this guy's line, there's no hope for you. Move in with him on his Anarchist's compound on the Redneck Riviera. The Flat Tax, Superman, and Sinter Klaus will be along shortly with pina coladas and Magic Unicorns which will chariot you on wheels of fire all the way to Capitol Hill. Amen, and watch out for fluorinated water faeries (Lance Vance joke). Go ahead and make your sand castles at high tide, kiddies, some of us have serious work to do.
The author of this piece and a few naysayers here seem to miss the primary purpose of HR25...the point of the Fair Tax is not the end all be all perfect tax system, but merely a way to wrest power from the gov and the lobbyists in and around the gov. Once that happens, then we US citizens will have the leverage to curb their spending and corruption. And once companies realize they no longer have to fear arcane tax codes, red tape, gov payoffs and such, the US will regain it's producing capacity, and make we can actually produce something other than shotty cars nobody wants. Or am I the only one noticing GM plants closing here while opening in China, tech jobs exported to India, China, Mexico, etc etc. That XBOX you bought your kid, hecho en Mexico. Your radio, China. Can we really afford 10 more years of the current tax code? Can we afford to whine about gov spending for the next 10 years while we get relegated to 2nd world superpower.
nopardons: "VAT garbage"
You should know what you're talking about before speaking so stridently. The fairtax is not a VAT, although they're both taxes based on consumption, the VAT is much more complicated, ripe for abuse, and in every country it's implemented in accompanies steep income and other taxes. Hell, you can read, do it: www.fairtax.org. Unless you like the idea of letting a sub from a Junior College tackle the heavy subjects.
I'm not the best proponent of HR25, but cmon! PENSACOLA JUNIOR COLLEGE!
bpjam:" Rich people will learn to game the new system just like they do now. And there is no way you get Democrats to go along with NOT taxing the rich so its a moo point (you know, what a cow thinks...)"
Geez, thanks for the pep talk, C3pO.
"Arguments about the rate are nothing but red herrings"
HOWsABOUT a little FIRE, Scarecrow! Awesome, very nicely done. Never seen so many non-sequitors, red herrings, and strawmen in one badly executed persuasive essay.
Myself, I'm trying to recall what exactly an "adjunct instructor" is, and why anyone would take the analysis of a self-published, junior college instructor more seriously than the analysis of Greenspan, reknowned economists, Independent thinktanks, etc.
I'll take slightly immoral income redistribution over stomp your teeth in, steal your children immoral income redistribution anyday.
Probably needed more commas there.
Myself, I'm trying to recall what exactly an "adjunct instructor" is, and why anyone would take the analysis of a self-published, junior college instructor more seriously than the analysis of Greenspan, reknowned economists, Independent thinktanks, etc.This is the second time you've mentioned Greenspan. Do you have any documentation that Greenspan supports the FairTax? Also, Vance was commenting on a book written by a blow-hard, radio talk show host - not Alan Greenspan, a renowned economist, or any member of a independent think tank.
Well said and cogently expressed.
I think "adjunct instructor" means he's a wannabe who doesn't have a full-time position even at the JC level and is trying something - anything - to make a "name" for hisself. Course he may make the sort of name that isn't what he desires.
After all, Peninsula JC is higher than middle school (isn't it????).
No, Nightie, YOU"RE the "logical fallacy" - question such idiocy as the lead-in guy's "paper" is fully justified. Greenspan has expressed good vibes about a consumption tax so that can count I'd say. You haven't so you don't count.
You overuse the term "logical fallacy" so much I wonder if you know what it means? Probably not.
Don't break your buns laughing so hard or you won't have a comfortable sit in your "investment" clothes.
I've asked you to provide the reference to the post that gave you the information about taxablity of your self-defined "investments" and you have never done so. I'll take that as an admission that there was no such and thet is just sounded good to you to make up such a claim.
You can "write off" stuff like that under the income tax and - if you're not caught at such a questionable tatic - you've bamboozled the IRS. Different situation when you buy clothes at a retailers trying to get him to not charge you the FairTax since it push comes to shove with the state sales tax folk, he's on the hook for it, not you. Of course if you buy all your "investment" clothes art Wal-Mart they'll no doubt be glad to put their business on the line to help you duck the FairTax ... right??? Right!!!
With the FairTax there is nothing to "write off" against as income is not taxed and donations will be made by using before tax dollars, not after tax dollars so there will be a larger incentive to donate than before.
Nothing silly about my underwear at all - after all Hillary donated Bill's boxers for a tax write-off and that was even BEFORE he was infamous. So, you can see, there's nothing silly about my shorts at all.
And you should attempt to restrain yourself from correcting on topics you know nothing about as you've used a number of metaphors but don't seem to even know what they are.
"Cheapo" underwear ... are you challenging me to a show and tell on our respective underwear quality??? Are you some sort of prevert??
Thank's for the suggestions, but I don't care to slow down and use a spellingthingy since you seem to get the drift all right without it.
As for reading and editing my replies - NAW!!! I'll leave that for you to do since you don't understand them in any event and make no coherent responses when you wildly guess at their meaning.
I've asked you before when you sling around the "contradicting" B.S. to give the exact post number and quote you're talking about else we'll just know with certainty that you really are lying through your teeth.
And BTW your spelling and phraseology (not to mention your ungrammatical use of English) ain't so red hot, either. So the pot shouldn't call the kettle black - isn't there an echo in here??
That's probably because your codpiece is out of kilter ... or mayhap it's because your flapdoodle is a'dangle.
Orrysay, iggypat attinlay NOT ALLOWED!!!
Wunnerful, nop - just give the the posts you're referring to where there are contrdictions and I'll certainly make an effort to clear them up for you.
Otherwise I'll just call you a liar (and perhaps a fraud, too).
Greenspan has expressed good vibes about a consumption tax so that can count I'd say.Yea but running off at the mouth doesn't mean you know anything.
Greenspan against tax reform proposal
Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan advised against altering the tax code to be solely based on consumption, arguing a mix of income and consumption taxes is likely the best option to reform the system.....I'd say that would make your reply the logical fallacy...Unless you admit that "a mix of income and consumption taxes is likely the best option to reform" is "good vibes".
All that verbage and not once can you acknowledge that spending is the real problem. Changing the method of collection will do nothing to decrease spending and give the government just another way to stay in our hip pockets.
It doesn't take a rock scientist to realize that!
Let's see more of what Greenspan said at that time:
"Greater simplicity would, in and of itself, engender a better use of resources," Greenspan said. Some consumption tax opponents, such as William Gale, co-director of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, have argued such taxes unfairly burden low- and moderate-income people. But Greenspan said policymakers could exclude some items from taxation to make consumption taxes less onerous for lower-income consumers. Consumption taxes can be made more progressive by exempting such necessities as food and clothing. Consumption taxes have some support in Congress, which is ultimately charged with setting U.S. tax policy. Rep. John Linder and Sen. Saxby Chambliss, both Republicans from Georgia, earlier this year reintroduced a proposal for a 23% retail sales tax accompanied by the abolishment of a wide range of taxes, including personal and corporate income taxes. A prior effort by the lawmakers did not succeed.""Greenspan backed tax reform, arguing that the current code is "overly complicated." He did not offer specific proposals, and his testimony was cut short by a fire alarm.
And so you see that Greenspan is not opposed to consumption taxes. He merely would like to see a certain type. In addition, he's not knowledgeable on the FairTax legislation (since he lets Gale's obvious lie go uncommented) and what it specifies since he obviously does not know of the prebate eliminating the need for exemptions for the poor as a progresivity feature.
Why don't you send him an unmarked-up copy of The FairTax Book, Looey? He'd learn a lot - even more than you obviously did. So my statement about Greenspan and "good vibes" still stands despite your efforts with the OOC snippet to muddy things up.
Notice that your hero William Gale, notorious lying opponent of the FairTax (after who so many of you Squirrels have patterned your attacks) has swivel-hipped his way into the hearing room to put in a few zingers opposing the FairTax. Gotta defend that ol' Status Quo just like you minions.
Oh, but changing the tax method will do a great deal to help us get to the point of forcing a reduction in spending - which the income tax will NEVER do (and hasn't in almost 100 years).
The tax system needs to be changesd first so that we can get spending reduced. Any other attempt merely allows those in Congress to hide their little "tax goodies" for some of their K-Street pals.
You keep sounding like a child and not a bright one. You're the one who mentioned his brand of underwear, who appears to be deeply obsessed by male genitalia, and whose grammar, syntax, spelling, and abject lack of not only cognitive ability, but also incomprehensible ( went to public school and not past the 3rd grade, dear? ) and absurd English reading and writing lack, inhibits any debate.
How fortunate for you, that you have such an inflated ego! A close look at the posts, who have destroyed anyone who actually had a well functioning brain.
OK, so you refuse to respond to the questions and precepts I've posed for you. That merely means - as I said earlier - that you're a fraud and a liar.
Actually, I not only do not wear Fruit of the Loom, I'm not at all obsessed with male (or female) genitalia. You must not know what a codwallop is, let alone a flapdoodle or a codpiece and are attempting to hide you lack of knowledge. When a poster like you comes along posing as being oh so intelligent (when the opposite is obviously the case) I merely enjoy seeing the air deflate out of his/her balloon.
The fact that you try flinging back female-like insults tells me a lot. I'll be careful to not get too close lest you slap me with your purse.
And you STILL haven't responded to the questions I've posed.
This entire response of yours in nothing BUT juvenile drivel and presents you as a young girl in her pre high-school years playing at posting to the Internet ... after all, on the Internet, no one knows you're a dog, right?.
You want a friend? GET A CAT OR DOG!
Want a discussion? GO TALK INTO THE NEAREST MIRROR.
I know exactly what codswallop is and how to use the word; unlike you.
I also know what a codpiece was and who wore them. BTW, Henry VIII had one of THE largest codpieces fitted into his suit or armor, that ever was made...heavily padded, of course. :-)
Here's one for you...what was a fatheringale and how was it used. DO NOT GOOGLE THAT WORD, NOR LOOK IT UP!
You'd be knocked out for a week, if ever I hit you with my pockebook, pet. :-)
You just looooooooooooooooooove flinging insults at your betters. How pathetic you are! Poor baby, need your nappy changed?
And NOW who's obsessed with HVIII's codpiece?
Does your husband feel inferior with your constant attempts to belittle??
You are both a fraud and a liar in context and if you don't realize what that means, go back and read my posts. You have never answered the questions I've posed.
Perhaps you're one of those into the Renaissance Fair type of thing; since you seem enamored of things Brit. "Betters"??? No doubt you mean "bettors" since you seem to like Brit-speak.
Don't break your arm kissing yourself on the wrist - it's not seemly. Can you tell me where the wearing of codpieces persisted into the 20th century (since you're obsessed with HVIII and his)? And can you name the group of people who wore them and the country they lived in? That's a lot more of a challenge than your "fatheringale".
Granting Congress a simpler method of gathering money will just end up allowing to find ways to take more money.
IRS, Fair Tax, VAT Tax, whatever, as long as they can keep getting their hands on whatever amount of money they wish, we will keep getting stroked.
No reform will ever give the taxpayers any relief until Government sepending is gotten under control. All it will do is cnage the method of collecting whatever amount they wish to take.
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