Posted on 12/11/2005 6:50:49 PM PST by Your Nightmare
REALLY??? In what ways do you assume it is "far worse"??
Why is it - do you think - that they have not been able to do this in something like 100 years under the income tax???
Could it be that the tax system is so flawed that it helps hide the burden of taxes for many (if not most) taxpayers??? In this way taxpayers will never be aware of how much they're actually being stuck with the tax system. Under the FairTax they certainly ARE made aware of it and there is no easy provision (as with the income tax) to hide things from taxpayers.
OF COURSE there "... won't be any less numbers of people not paying anything and getting other people's money ...". That's just the point. There will be far MORE people actually contributing to the tax revenues than at present (some of whom you see on these threads attacking the FairTax because it destroys their litte corner of tax-heaven they have all carved ourt).
And the prebate taxpayers are being paid comes from their own tax payments. As for your "all kinds of ways" bravado, tell us some ... and how the same sort of thing is not going on right now (and on an ever greater scale).
And have you stopped to think of what a flat tax really is??? Obviously not ... it is something like what the present system started with in 1913.
In addition, it solves almost none of the problems caused by an income-based tax such as not taxing the illegal economy, not aiding US exporters who have to export some part of their busines income tax in the prices they charge overseas putting them at a disadvantage. And there are other income-tax based problems ars well.
Every flat tax proposed has the dubious "advantage" of retaining the payroll taxes and withholdings which are the largest taxes that some people pay. The flat tax is certainly not a remedy compared to the FairTax.
And I guess you haven't noticed, but neither you nore anyone you mention buys only used books, used furniture, used artwork, etc. Even those folks buy a goodly amount of things new at retail and those would be taxable under thae FairTax.
Nor is "... everyone who sells anything, an arm of the Federal Government ..." since not everything that is sold (as you have pointed out) is taxable and for taxable items, the business is paid to collect the tax and forward it to his state unlike at present when he must function as an "arm of the Federal Government" and NOT be paid to do so.
And it does not matter how much the used things are "worth" since if they have been taxed once they are not to be taxed again under the FairTax bill. You think that is is somehow unfair to only tax a thing once??? Would twice be fair??? Three times??? As you may (or may) not know we have that very situation right now under any income-based tax system.
One little thing, however, you're being paid "welfare" (your term) with your own money whereas at present you're being paid welfare largely with other taxpayer's money.
Do you really figure you'll be buying nothing taxable???
the states would be in charge of collecting the sales taxes. It would greatly help you to do some research on the subject you're atempting to argue about since you are quite ill-informed.
And there is on "espousing" a paid citizen IRS force at all. In fact the IRS is completely done away with and sellers are paid to collect and remit the tax - not to police it as the IRS presently does.
You say "... Bartering would make a big comeback ..." as though it had ever left. If you don't think it's alive and well today you're kidding yoursels. There is also massive income tax evasion of a different sort going on right now that is much greater in the form of the rest of those in the illegal income part of the ecopnomy - illegal aliens, drug dealers, etc. These would be among the losers under the FairTax since they will now be taxed.
Actually several posters have told you the prebate is based upon family size only, not the poverty level of the family. It is intended to pay the sales tax up to the amount that a poverty level taxpayer would have to pay.
The "quality" of things has nothing to do with whether they are taxed or not. New, untaxed items would be taxed - others would not. And if you make the leap of faith that "prices will skyrocket" (which the FairTax opponents would like all to believe) then you REALLY haven't put your thinking cap on nor done your homework. Why is it you think that would be the case since with business income taxes removed from the prices of goods (they both cascade and embed themselves in prices of things) those prices will certainly drop, not increase.
If everything your buy outside of "food and services" is indeed investment then you are very fortunate. Most people also find it either necessary or desireable to consume as new things as clothing, cars, and housing for example.
If you don't but instead invest all that it is true you'll pay no FairTax on the investments, but instead you will be aiding the economy by providing the capital for other busineses to expand and hire more wage earners, etc.
That's just fine, too, and its one of the objectives of the FairTax - so thanks!
You're the one who needs the dicionary, Nightie, and you've shown that repeatedly on these threads.
Look up the word "refund" your self. The prebate IS a refund.
No, because not all americans get S/SS and when they do they get back far more than they ever paid in. That's not the case with the prebate since even with those spending below he poverty line (and that will be very, bvery few) most will have paid in most if not more than they will have received.
With S/S, most who are on the entitlement are receiving far more than they ever paid into it. that's why the "plan" is going broke.
You're the one who needs the dicionary, Nightie, and you've shown that repeatedly on these threads.Sure, I'm the one who needs a "dicionary."
Lying about so many aspects of the FairTax - as you do - certainly amounts to shilling to keep the present system (which you seem to know little about) or to attempt to get one very much like it as any income-baed tax would be.
Why would my house be taxed under the Fair Tax? It was fully paid for when we built it.
We don't buy a new car every year; nor every three or four months,as someone on this thread claimed the people he knows do.
So yes, it would be just food and services that I would have to pay tax on. Everything else, I can call an "investment", as it has been explained on this thread ; even new books, since I'd make certain that all of them were first editions.
Now, it is probable that those posting here, who favor this scheme, don't know what they're talking about. And since the Fair Tax hasn't any real chance to be realized in my lifetime, it really doesn't matter.
**gasp**
No!
Actual pigdog quotes used to refute a poster's comments:
You're the one who needs the dicionary [sic], Nightie, and you've shown that repeatedly on these threads. that's been pointed out to you numerous times. As has been shown several times on this and other threads It's quite clear in the bill as has been pointed out to you previously on several occasions and you've shown that repeatedly on these threads. This has been pointed oput [sic] to you before
You'll also find like phrases used constantly by other fairtaxers to refute a poster...always without evidence or source.
No, I'm not "ill-informed" on this topic; "quite" or otherwise.
I was told that anything bought as an "investment", new or used, wouldn't be taxed under this scheme. Now, YOU claim that that isn't so. WHICH IS IT ? If I buy quality jewelry or art and it's new, it's an investment; isn't it? If not, then tell that to the "FAIR TAX EXPERT" here, who told me it was. LOL
If you pay the merchants to collect and keep a record of this VAT ( and yes the FT is a VAT !), them they are replacing the IRS. And many of them WILL cheat; they do now.
I never said that bartering ever stopped being used. I said that it would make a big comeback and so it would. Bartering is NOT as widespread now; no matter what you say.
Illegals pay sales taxes now and those with phony IDs/Social Security numbers ( and NO, I am not soft on illegal aliens; I'm just pointing out the bleeding obvious !) pay some taxes now.
Yes, there are people who find a way to hide from paying some taxes now. That won't change. If you think that that is n't so, no wonder you fell for the FT scam.
Psssssssssssssssssst...I never said that only the poor would get the prebate.
Why don't I think that prices wouldn't come down? Because without added taxes, the profits would increase, by keeping prices where they are. Companies would still have to pay taxes on such things as oil and gasoline and electricity and building cleaners and cleaning products and pencils and pens and paper and computer stuff, etc.; wouldn't they? Not all costs would disappear with the FT and some would be raised greatly. And who do companies pass cost on to? Why, THE CONSUMER, of course. :-)
As much as I can; yes!
That sort of scheme would certainly not past the smell test. Buying some already-used clothes that had some sort of historic or museum-quality value (G. Washington's riding breeches) might very well qualify, but trying to purchase new clothes claiming they are an "investment" is a silly justification and would no doubt not be honored by any seller of same since it would be that seller rather than you who would be liable for the tax should it come to that. It does not matter that YOU "consider them an investment" at all. I doubt that you've been lied to but it may be that whoever told you that didn't grasp your little "consider it as an investment" trick.
Keep in mind you must first buy them as new and at that point they have no established value other than their retail value (with 23% of that being the Fair Tax). The stunt of "calling everything as an investment" is clearly beyond the pale and I'd think you'd realize that if you had read the FairTax bill or even spent a bit of time on the FairTax website. You can "call" it anything you wish. Not paying a normal applicable retail sales tax on it is another thing entirely.
In fact, even common sense should tell you that.
There really ARE a lot of people who inherit and/or only buy "old" ( we call 'em antiques; dear ) furniture. And if you buy really good things and don't follow fads, you NEVER have to replace them.
But the Federal Government is massively expanded by the so-called fair tax and you just agreed with me that that is so! CITIZEN TAX COLLECTORS! All of a sudden, the person who cuts you hair ( unless you do it at home ), babysits your kids, resoles your shoes, etc. is an arm of the Federal Government. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORAY ?
Double, triple and more taxation oh things is what's so wrong about the death tax! And GOD willing, the damned death tax will be done away with permanently, soon!
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