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There is No Such Thing as a Fair Tax
Ludwig von Mises Institute ^ | 12/12/2005 | Laurence Vance

Posted on 12/11/2005 6:50:49 PM PST by Your Nightmare

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To: EternalVigilance
Funny, EV, very funny...NOT!

You shouldn't make fun of AA. It has worked for many who needed it; which I never have.

What kind of a person takes a bus as salary, EV? Heck, what kind of a person lives out of a bus? Is that really all your supposed vaunted campaign work is worth?

161 posted on 12/14/2005 12:13:08 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

So, if I say that EVERYTHING I buy ( outside of food and services ) is an investment, then I won't pay any taxes on any of it under the FT?

If you just "say" it no.

If the purchase/investment meets the legislative qualifications for exemption you will not pay the NRST implemented under HR25 on it.

That gives everyone a pretty HUGE loophole right there and you don't even see it. Oh, no, wait a minute, what it does, *hehehehehehehe*, is to give those with lots of nice disposable income a HUGE tax break!

 

Since income is not taxed, only expenditure on consumption. there is no loophole. One

Get your head out of the income tax box you have placed it in.

Investment and savings are not consumption that is to be taxed under a National Retail Sales Tax.

The purchase of consumer goods and services is taxed under a consumption tax sytem. Not income and not investment or savings of an individual only that which is applied to consumptions.

All consumer goods and services are to be taxed once but only once under the FairTax system., Quite unlike the income tax and VATs which tax the same thing repeatedly throughout a production chain and hide much of the tax burden from the view of the electorate, the main failing of such tax systems.

If the voter does not perceive the burden placed on him by government as being from government, how can he exercise his voting responsibility in a knowing and informed manner? Indeed how can one begin to expect an level of accountablility of government to the citizen in fiscal matters under such disability?

The obvious answer to such as state, is obviously the citizen who is held unaware of the cost of govenment cannot appropriately assess value nor hold government accountable in an reasonable sense.

The Intent of the individual income tax is for political and social control not revenue collection. The Individual Income tax is maintained to establish and hold every person in the country perpetual legal jeopardy. That is a situation that must end with the repeal of the income tax from the statutes, and the prohibition of its use by Constitutional amendment that future generations will not face the same manner of manipulation and interference in their lives.

If we expect to see control of government spending, we had best look to make the burden visible to the whole of the electorate, not just the few designated as the token guy behind the tree.

That is one of the bottomline purposes of going to the NRST, make the cost of largess perceptible to the entire electorate, even the lowest most rungs of the economic ladder.

162 posted on 12/14/2005 12:14:32 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it!!)
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To: nopardons

You've been hanging out with the antifreepers and listening to their stupid inventions and speculations again, I see.

I think you protest a bit too much on the AA thing, but that's just me.


163 posted on 12/14/2005 12:15:47 AM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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To: ancient_geezer
If the purchase/investment meets the legislative qualifications for exemption you will not pay the NRST implemented under HR25 on it.

So in other words "investment" is whether the legislature says it is. Tuition can be an investment, children can be an investment, housing can be an investment, giving to charity can be considered an investment if Congress wished.

That doesn't sound like deductions/credits based on social concerns to you?

164 posted on 12/14/2005 6:08:05 AM PST by LWalk18
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To: EternalVigilance; nopardons
I will say, your posts are much easier to read since they installed spellcheck. Your phrasing and syntax and wandering trains of thought still leave me wondering alot, but the fact that you now know how to capitalize letters is a big improvement!
You may want to start using that spell checker because "spellcheck" should be "spell check" and "alot" should be "a lot."
165 posted on 12/14/2005 6:18:57 AM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: LWalk18

So in other words "investment" is whether the legislature says it is.

Its a consumption tax. Investment is not consumption.

Tuition can be an investment, children can be an investment, housing can be an investment, giving to charity can be considered an investment if Congress wished.

That doesn't sound like deductions/credits based on social concerns to you?

You tell me, is education an investment? Is puchase of stocks or bonds an investment under the legislation? Of course both are. Are children taxable property anymore than you are? You figure children should pay more taxes than an adult?

Since none of the above is consumption, and the FairTax is on use or consumption of taxable property and services, not investment or savings or people regardless of age/ I would not call those social concern but rational distinctions defining the the tax base, (i.e. use or consumption of taxable property and services.)

166 posted on 12/14/2005 8:17:03 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it!!)
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To: Your Nightmare
You may want to start using that spell checker because "spellcheck" should be "spell check" and "alot" should be "a lot."

Well YN, at least I know the difference between taxing and spending, between tax refunds and welfare; unlike the writer of this lying screed you posted.

167 posted on 12/14/2005 9:44:37 AM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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To: EternalVigilance
Well YN, at least I know the difference between taxing and spending, between tax refunds and welfare; unlike the writer of this lying screed you posted.
Really? So the government sending every legal resident in the country a check regardless of whether they paid a cent in taxes (which should be easy since it is a "voluntary" tax) is a "refund"?

Maybe you should just go buy a dictionary. You could look up the spelling of words and also get their meanings. You might want to start with "refund."
168 posted on 12/14/2005 11:08:11 AM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare

The fact remains that the vast majority of Americans will simply be receiving back what they paid in up to the poverty line.

If someone manages to live on less, God bless em. They're the beneficiaries of the public interest of keeping the new tax system simple and uninvasive of the citizen's private business.

As usual, you're straining out the gnat and swallowing camels.


169 posted on 12/14/2005 11:25:16 AM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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To: EternalVigilance
The fact remains that the vast majority of Americans will simply be receiving back what they paid in up to the poverty line.
And the vast majority of Americans will simply be receiving back from Social Security what they paid into it. I guess that's a "refund," too.
170 posted on 12/14/2005 11:31:24 AM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare

Your abilites to obfuscate are impressive, but as always, utterly unpersuasive.


171 posted on 12/14/2005 11:35:54 AM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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To: EternalVigilance
Your abilites to obfuscate are impressive, but as always, utterly unpersuasive.
Right. Being against a plan that sets up the largest entitlement program in the history of this country is "obfuscation." Gotcha.

PS. You misspelled "abilities."
172 posted on 12/14/2005 11:40:19 AM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare

My typo, next to your inability to do anything but shill for the IRS, seems rather a small thing, don't you think?

You're obsessed with attacking the FairTax. You do nothing else on FR.

Makes a guy wonder about your motives.


173 posted on 12/14/2005 11:44:02 AM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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To: Your Nightmare
Right. Being against a plan that sets up the largest entitlement program in the history of this country is "obfuscation." Gotcha.

In your world, keeping your own money is an 'entitlement program'?

*rolling eyes*

174 posted on 12/14/2005 11:48:32 AM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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To: EternalVigilance
My typo, next to your inability to do anything but shill for the IRS, seems rather a small thing, don't you think?
Maybe next time you will pause before critizing the spelling of others. And when have I ever "shilled" for the IRS.


You're obsessed with attacking the FairTax. You do nothing else on FR. Makes a guy wonder about your motives.
My motives are making sure the POS plan never gets implemented for no other reason than it would be a disaster for this country.
175 posted on 12/14/2005 11:54:57 AM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare

You shill for the IRS constantly.

Seems to be your only reason for being here.


176 posted on 12/14/2005 11:59:01 AM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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To: EternalVigilance
In your world, keeping your own money is an 'entitlement program'? *rolling eyes*
If it allows a person to keep more than their own money it's an entitlement program. When you finally get your dictionary, see if it has "entitlement program" listed.
177 posted on 12/14/2005 12:00:54 PM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: EternalVigilance
You shill for the IRS constantly.
Give me one example of me "shilling" for the IRS. Pointing out the flaws is not "shilling" for the IRS.
178 posted on 12/14/2005 12:03:10 PM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare

Like I said, straining out gnats and swallowing camels.

The overwhelming majority of Americans will not receive more than they paid in.

The few who will are a small price to pay for simplicity and noninvasiveness.

Of course, you can't afford to acknowledge that, since to do so would undermine your longstanding defense of the IRS and the income tax.


179 posted on 12/14/2005 12:05:42 PM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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To: Your Nightmare

Defending the status quo = "shilling for the IRS"


Duh...


180 posted on 12/14/2005 12:07:13 PM PST by EternalVigilance (I support the FairTax for the sake of my children and grandchildren...)
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