Do the sums, then compare US and Communist crimes from the Cold War [Eviscerating Pinter]

The Sunday Telegraph ^ | December 11, 2005 | By Niall Ferguson

[aculeus]

So stick to plays, Harold, and stop torturing history.

[Wiz]

Communism killed more than 100 million people throughout the world.

[stephenjohnbanker]

Bravo to article.........and Pinters plays suck.

[stephenjohnbanker]

Correct. But somehow they missed Pinter.

[G.Mason]

" ... They [using torture] simultaneously increase the risk that any Americans or US allies who fall into the hands of al-Qaeda will themselves be tortured ... "

Gee ... I'm sorry, but he lost me right there.

First time I was tortured while reading an article about torture.

[Wiz]

If West Europe did not colonize Africa, Arab, and Asia, things would have been much more better. In fact, how many Western Europe Conoloialists killed the people under its power. Even worse, Europe still does not make any apologize for the countries that they have colonized. Western Europe has the sin for giving birth to Communism, resulting the death of 100 million people. They are responisible for many more deaths. In fact, Western Europe still had attempt to support dictators such as Iraq under Saddam Hussein, and attempting to make weapons sales to China, ignoring the human rights being violated.

[TheGeezer]

Niall Ferguson is Laurence A. Tisch Professor of History at Harvard University

This, from Harvard? Be still, my hopeful heart!

[Gay State Conservative]

Pinter praises various repressive,totalitarian regimes from the safety of one of the freest and most civilized nations to have ever existed.

What a brave fella!

[dsc]

"So stick to plays, Harold"

You ever sit through one of his plays? Talk about torture.

[prion]

Reports that the CIA "waterboards" prisoners make a mockery of the Bush administration's repeated denunciations of Saddam Hussein as a torturer. They simultaneously increase the risk that any Americans or US allies who fall into the hands of al-Qaeda will themselves be tortured. And those reports are wrecking what little is left of the transatlantic alliance - witness Thursday's ruling by the Law Lords that evidence obtained from torture is inadmissible in British courts. The White House should shut up and back Senator John McCain's bill, which would unequivocally ban torture by American military or intelligence personnel.

Point by point: waterboarding gives the illusion of drowning without the subject being in any actual danger. Is it torture? I suppose. But Saddam actually injured or killed people. No illusion about it. Who can't see the difference?

Secondly, al Qaeda saws off the heads of captives with a dull knife now. What reason do we have to believe that has anything to do with our conduct, and how exactly do you dial it up a notch from that?

Third, the Law Lords ruled that evidence obtained by torture would be inadmissable in court. Duh. Here too. Also evidence obtained by threats, via hypnosis and through polygraph exams. This is a non-story if ever there was one.

Fourth, torture is already forbidden uniquivocolly. As it stands now, we trust our servicemen to sort out what that means. McCain's bill wouldn't improve matters, just leave the lingering impression the military would go batdung crazy without Congressional telling them what's what. Scroo that.

I mean, it's nice to have this guy's support and all, but I hate it when our friends say stupid things in the course of coming to our defense. And, frankly, I'm getting VERY tired of having this conversation in the absence of a firm definition of terror. Nipping off fingers? Waterboarding? Sleep deprivation? Shouting? Putting panties on the head? What the hell are we talking about here?

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Western Europe made many mistakes, HOWEVER had they not gone to Africa and India those places would be bigger hell holes than they are. As to the Arabs perhaps a History 101 course would help you to learn who attack where first.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Torture is bad because if you hurt someone hard enough and long enough you can get them to "confess" anything you want to get you to stop. It's that simple.

Well, that and the fact that confessions are halakhically indadmissable as evidence.

Interesting, isn't it, that the leftwing "saint" Alan Dershowitz actually supports torture? Yeah, this is just what we on the pro-Israel side need!

[aculeus]

This, from Harvard? Be still, my hopeful heart!

Don't get excited. He's only a visiting professor.

[vbmoneyspender]

They simultaneously increase the risk that any Americans or US allies who fall into the hands of al-Qaeda will themselves be tortured.

Earth to Niall. American captives that fall into the hands of Al Qaeda are lucky if they are kept live long enough to be tortured.

[Rummyfan]

So stick to plays, Harold, and stop torturing history.

His plays are horrible too!

[FostersExport]

"Western Europe has the sin for giving birth to Communism, resulting the death of 100 million people"

It also gave birth to capitalism. Take the rough with the smooth.

[JasonC]

"if the Nobel committee wants to boost his bank balance and his ego, then that is their affair"

No, its really not.

Am I the only one still capable of outrage over the obvious fact, the Nobel foundation has clearly been captured by hard core communists?

It should just be confiscated, if it cannot be purged and recaptured by civilized men.

[Dan Evans]

'There are no hard distinctions between what is real and what is unreal, nor between what is true and what is false. A thing is not necessarily either true or false; it can be both true and false."

And so is this statement true or false? Or is it both true and false?

[FastCoyote]

Well worth a re read

[wildcatf4f3]

May increase the risk of Americans being tortured?

They're beheaded! Whats a little torture after your heads been sawed off?