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What really happened to AA Flight 612
WorldNetDaily ^
| 09 December 2005
| Jack Cashill
Posted on 12/09/2005 5:08:08 PM PST by concretebob
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To: mad_as_he$$
"Do you still maintain that the entire FAA system runs only on transponder data?"
Do me a favor and point out exactly where I said that. Quote me. Point out the exact post.
Look, if you can't even keep facts straight in a single FreeRepublic thread, I can understand why the specifics of this incident are sailing right over your head.
"how did ASR assign the same ID to two different IFF responses and then feed it to PASSUR?"
You have so little idea of what you are talking about that your question doesn't even make sense. Let me just start by telling you that when an ASR system interrogates an IFF transponder, it doesn't assign an ID. It simply reads the ID from the IFF transmitter.
"You don't think that a cargo plane of under 33,000 pounds could cause this image?"
What cargo plane are you thinking about that weighs under 33,000 pounds? And what cargo plane is capable of greater than 6000 ft per minute climb rates?
201
posted on
12/10/2005 8:36:20 PM PST
by
Rokke
To: ChefKeith
First you say...
"How do I know that you two:
A) are not the same person with multiple computers.
B) don't still work for the fedscum getting paid to help cover up things like this.
Then you say...
"I'm not a "conspiracy loon""
I've got some bad news for you. If you aren't a "conspiracy loon", you are at the very least a paranoid schizophrenic.
202
posted on
12/10/2005 8:44:40 PM PST
by
Rokke
To: Pukin Dog
Pukin, I may be ugly but I've got a hot wife, and I got to spend all day with her and my two kids on the Colorado ski slopes. You'll never guess what I didn't think about all day. Here's a hint...it has something to do with tinfoil. Now that I've logged back on to FreeRepublic, I find out that we're employed by the Fedscum to amuse people on FreeRepublic. And you thought you were unemployed. Better watch out or Delta is going to try to claim a piece of that paycheck too.
203
posted on
12/10/2005 8:54:26 PM PST
by
Rokke
To: Rokke
And what cargo plane is capable of greater than 6000 ft per minute climb rates?
Well a 757 is, or a 767-300.
Wolf
204
posted on
12/10/2005 9:35:41 PM PST
by
RunningWolf
(Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
To: concretebob
Did not take long to have people blaming 'Bush' for a cover up. Guess they never thought that Bush believed what was reported to him.
205
posted on
12/10/2005 9:42:25 PM PST
by
Dustbunny
(Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
To: Rokke
What cargo plane are you thinking about that weighs under 33,000 pounds? And what cargo plane is capable of greater than 6000 ft per minute climb rates?
I know the '57 can do greater than 6000 vsi. I've on the flight deck when it happened. Some 57's are now freighters. The 767-300 can do it to I hear.
Wolf
206
posted on
12/10/2005 10:32:35 PM PST
by
RunningWolf
(Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
To: Rokke
Don't know why I keep forgetting your Academy time, but it must be due to alcohol somehow.
Hot women are everywhere, I prefer mine without the potential extortion of a divorce lawyer. Some can do it, I aint one of them. Women don't stay hot, either. Like a day-old bagel, then harden, become bitter, then rotten and must be replaced by something hotter, fresher, softer and more compliant.
I took the Delta money and ran, but I cant escape the Fedscum. My mission is to convince the stupid public that the aliens mean us no harm, should it every be found out that they have taken human form as French pastry chefs.
207
posted on
12/11/2005 7:06:37 AM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: Pukin Dog
I read your bagel description to my wife. She thought it was hysterical. But you've got it all wrong. As I watched my wife race my son down the mountain yesterday, I was thinking more about smooth, aged, single malt scotch than a stale bagel. I don't care how fresh your bagel is, things that are really worth hanging on to just get better with age.
208
posted on
12/11/2005 12:10:03 PM PST
by
Rokke
To: Rokke
things that are really worth hanging on to just get better with age. Well, I suppose under those rules I should still be CAP'n in the 'D' over the Persian Gulf? I know me and my babe were both better with age, right?
But you see, like a fine old Islay Scotch, in the end, we were just too expensive for the risks involved. Like a beautiful woman, the Tomcat was too tempermental and high maintenance to continue our relationship.
Old beauties are a wonderful thing, but after awhile, even with the best care, they eventually throw a compressor blade your way, and mess your $hit up.
Then you have to get out, and hope you survive the separation intact and undamaged physically and mentally, in hopes that another beauty will let you push her buttons.
209
posted on
12/11/2005 12:37:18 PM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: Pukin Dog; Rokke
You two are expending a substantial effort geared toward discrediting this thread. I've been around the block a few times, managed 100 plus million dollar lines of business and met all kinds of people. When I see behavior like the two of you are engaged in, it tends to point to some sort of agenda. Don't know what sorts of conflicts of interest the two of you may have regading this subject matter, but I do find your behavior to be notable. Maybe y'all just get off on attacking people / threads that in your opinion are "conspiracy over the top" or maybe you have a specific dog in this hunt.
210
posted on
12/12/2005 10:22:15 AM PST
by
GOP_1900AD
(Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
To: Rokke
Do you understand electromagnetism at all?
Do you understand the concept of radiated power decaying as the cube of the distance? A nearby object will reflect at a much greater power than a further one. A small object near a plane, with the appropriate impedence characteristics, can be a highly effective reflector. Buildings, mountains and other large objects further away will reflect with a much larger cross sections but the power of the reflected wave / signal is much lower at that point and hence, the reflected power can actually be LOWER than from a nearby much smaller object!
Have you ever taken an upper division physics class? I take it you have not!
211
posted on
12/12/2005 10:35:18 AM PST
by
GOP_1900AD
(Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
To: GOP_1900AD
I wont speak for Rokke(though some nuts think I do), but I will respond to you. As far as I know, Rokke and I are the only persons on the thread who have seen what a missile looks like in the air, have sat in the cockpit of a large jetliner, understand how these systems work, and don't wear tin-foil hats.
I think Rokke would agree with me, that discrediting this thread does not require 'considerable effort' as you say, but only common sense, experience a healthy sense of humor.
212
posted on
12/12/2005 10:36:39 AM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: GOP_1900AD
"You two are expending a substantial effort geared toward discrediting this thread."
It takes neither us, nor effort to discredit this thread. My only agenda is to try to educate people who think life is a continuous series of hidden conspiracies that things really aren't as complicated or as sinister as they seem when you look at simple facts instead of creating complex theories.
213
posted on
12/12/2005 10:56:43 AM PST
by
Rokke
To: GOP_1900AD
"Do you understand electromagnetism at all?"
Do you have any practical experience with secondary surveillance radars? If you did, you'd realize that a person doesn't need a knowledge of advanced physics or electromagnetism to understand why the information in your post is largely irrelevant to this discussion. Not only have I taken an (or even a few) "upper division physics" classes, I graduated from one of the top engineering schools in the nation, took many semesters of electrical engineering, weapons systems engineering and related topics. But more importantly, I have spent the last 16 years of my life working daily on a practical level with exactly what we are talking about in this thread. You obviously have not. If you had, you would realize why IFF transponder signals do not bounce off of other objects (near or far) and create falls secondary returns for systems like ATC ASR radars, or the PASSUR system. Here is a suggestion. Do some reading on the difference between primary radar and secondary radar. Then do some reading about the technology used by the PASSUR system. And stop assuming that government agents are hiding behind every story to pull the wool over your eyes.
214
posted on
12/12/2005 11:08:36 AM PST
by
Rokke
To: GOP_1900AD
Well we have some known facts to deal with here.
There are quantities of Russian-made MANPADS out there.
There have been known close misses to civilian airliners with MANPADS.
There have been known hits on civilian airliners with MANPADS.
There is the flt 612 AA pilots radioed air-traffic conversing to controllers what appeared to be a rocket had been fired at the aircraft and missed as American Airlines Flight 612
It is the FBI agents that say it is believed it was a flare or a bottle rocket that passed by and they don't think it was any threat to the aircraft.
So based on this and more I reject the pilot gods knee-jerk dismissal of those that don't share their view on these incidents as tin foil hat candidates, (jock strap carrying qualifications aside) /sarc>
Wolf
215
posted on
12/12/2005 7:41:29 PM PST
by
RunningWolf
(Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
To: Pukin Dog
Bkmrk for later read...Hope ya don't mind me bookmarking off of your post PD.
216
posted on
12/12/2005 8:53:24 PM PST
by
FlashBack
(When I grow up I wanna be a coWboy.)
To: RunningWolf
Here are some more facts to deal with.
The New Orleans Saints have won football games.
The Saints have previously beaten the Atlanta Falcons.
The Falcons have been known to blow a game or two.
People have actually witnessed the Saints win a football game.
It is the evil John Madden that says that the Falcons are a better team than the Saints.
So based on this (AND MORE) I declare right now that the Saints will win the Super bowl.
After your post, mine actually makes more sense.
217
posted on
12/12/2005 9:01:29 PM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: Pukin Dog; GOP_1900AD
'Cept your wrong the Colts are going to win.
Non sequitur anyway.
The point is (and you can reject it if you wish, you can even call me names too. I hope when you do you also supply some good info for all to the topic of this thread). But the point is this is a known danger, and Boeing the FAA and the TSA are looking at various methods to reduce the risks to civilian aircraft.
Back to the article. Two AA pilots see something they describe as a missile track. During the same time there is radar data showng some unknown object in the vicinity of the aircraft. There are quantities of Russian-made MANPADS available. It is not impossible one could have been launched from a boat or small aircraft in Santa Monica Bay. There have been known close misses to civilian airliners with MANPADS. There have been known hits on civilian airliners with MANPADS.
On the face of it, this kind of MANPAD event on a civilian jet transport was/is much more probable than 9-11 ever was.
Wolf
218
posted on
12/12/2005 9:49:02 PM PST
by
RunningWolf
(Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
To: RunningWolf
Yeah, but those were AA pilots.
I mean, come on.
219
posted on
12/12/2005 10:21:44 PM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: somemoreequalthanothers
We're seeing consistent behavior through two completely different Presidential administrations, which is odd. No it's not. Conspiracy kooks don't care who is in office.
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