Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor?

Independent Institute ^

[peyton randolph]

Let's see. I'm a "Bushbot" because I don't believe (without evidence) that FDR intended for thousands of Americans to be slaughtered at Pearl Harbor?

Put down your crack pipe, step away from the keyboard, remove the tinfoil hat, and seek professional help.

[NAVY84]

I am locking my tin foil hat securely in my desk drawer.

Some details to consider:

* We had a significant portion of our fleet (oilers, DDs, flying boats, etc) tied up in Neutrality Patrols.

* We were essentially inferior in virtually every category of combatant when compared to the IJN.

* There were many new ships building and contracted for but they were 2-3yrs away.

* War plans to deal with Japan (Orange and Rainbow) involved our Battleships steaming across the Pacific and facing off against the IJN in the vacinity of the Philippines or Guam. One problem, Billy Mitchell showed the world what airpower would do to the fleet as it approached the western Pacific.

* The losses at Pearl Harbor were horrendous, but no where near what Orange/Rainbow would have produced.

* The performance of our Asiatic Fleet shows what the result of a direct confrontation in DEC41/JAN42 would have looked like with all but a handful of destroyers and subs being blasted to the bottom (2 light cruisers also slipped away after being damaged).

* We were reading some of the enemy's mail (I am not convinced that as much as noted here was cracked realtime with some I'm fairly sure, translated after the fact.)

* Turf wars in FDRs day make the petty crap that the "911 Commission" reported on look like childs play. Just in the Navy, BUORD wouldn't tell BUSHIPS what the weight of the turrets were on the North Carolina class until the ship's plans had been drawn up, just so one admiral could make another admiral look bad! Intelligence was not shared between War Department entities let alone other departments.

Question: With these items in mind could Roosevelt (who would also have known that no serious direct threat to the US mainland was likely) have opted to take a hit? (while also knowing that we were in fact a "sleeping lion" - Yammamoto warned Tojo and his General Staff that this was the case)

Answer: Yes, it's possible. The info available to us is compelling but, still not conclusive. Most of the document trail is partial, the missing pieces will come out one day and maybe we will know. Despite his social record, I think that if the answer ends up being a yes, FDR would best be described as a Patriot that did what had to be done, in a difficult situation described above.

As a side note: In all of this, the Army figured only in a minor way due to the fact that we could not defend everywhere with enough strength so Japan would be able to take any thing we left unprotected so we concentrated on the Philippines and Hawaii. I'm sure that both were considered safe even in the face of a surprise attack. That this was not true shows that FDR may deserve even more credit.

[MikefromOhio]

I think it's more of we knew they were coming, but we didn't know when quite yet.

[Enterprise]

bump

[BlueMondaySkipper]

I question this line of reasoning. The Jappanese were alerted to our code-breaking abilities by a story run in the Chicago Tribune following the Battle of Midway and by a speech made by a Congressman on the floor of the House.

Leahy???

[TruthNtegrity]

Bookmarking

[Wolverine]

Watch this after free Netflix registration

Know Your Enemy http://www.movieflix.com/movie_info.mfx?movie_id=1981

[hotshu]

Well, FDR did surreptitiously maneuver the US into WWII. He did it cynically and methodically at the same tie as he said "I hate war. Elanor hates war. I will never send American boy to die in foreign conflicts." He was a typical slimy lying democrat hack who cared not a whit for the will of the American public.

This from his "date ... infamy" speech:

The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. I regret to tell you that very many American lives have been lost. In addition, American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.

Yesterday, the Japanese government also launched an attack against Malaya.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked Guam.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands.

Last night, the Japanese attacked Wake Island.

And this morning, the Japanese attacked Midway Island."

Did all these attacks actually take place? I really want to know. I will do further study as my time frees up, but I know there must be Freepers who have the facts at hand.

I've never heard this portion of the speech before last night. (Sorry - no link, just Google "pearl harbor speech" for its entirety}.

If these attacks did not take place, could it be said that FDR misused intelligence or misled us into war?

I also agree that we had no choice but to take on the Japanese empire just as we must defeat the islamic murderers we are now fighting. I think we need to view FDR's comments with the same degree of scrutiny the left is using to paint GWB's post 9-11 statements as lies.

[T'wit]

I have little expertise in the matter. But for forty years I've known an intelligence specialist who has made Pearl his lifetime's study. This man thinks Stinnett is unreliable and wrong. He gets hot under the collar just talking about Stinnett's claims :-)

My own evolution is thus in the other direction. I started out believing that "FDR knew." Now I'm highly skeptical of this.

[streetpreacher]

Must be hard keeping those rose-colored glasses on all day long.

[zot]

Pearl Harbor ping. Have you seen this?

[GreyFriar]

Thanks for the ping. I hadn't seen it. The good news is that those files were put in the concrete as the foundation for the Pentagon was being poured.

[GreyFriar]

Quite contrare, it is not worth the read for what he claims. The majority of the intercepted 1941 naval messages were not decrypted until 1942 and 43, some even later. Thus the "warning" from decrypts would have come months after the attack occurred. I began reading it and quit because it was a waste of time. the author fits things to fit his agenda, that Bush (whoops) FDR planned the war.

[Inyokern]

I do find it credible that Roosevelt purposely provoked the Japanese, trying to get into a war with them. I think moving the Pacific Fleet to Pearl Harbor was part of that effort.

However, I do not believe that Roosevelt knew that there was going to be a massive attack on Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941 and purposely witheld intelligence from Kimmel and Short. I don't think he or his advisers really considered the possibilty of a full frontal attack like that.

I also think that Roosevelt was correct that it was very necessary for us to get involved in the fight against Hitler. The idea that we could sit back and allow the Nazis to defeat Britain is absurd.

[zot]

Quite contrare, it is not worth the read for what he claims. The majority of the intercepted 1941 naval messages were not decrypted until 1942 and 43, some even later. Thus the "warning" from decrypts would have come months after the attack occurred. I began reading it and quit because it was a waste of time. the author fits things to fit his agenda, that Bush (whoops) FDR planned the war.

Thanks. That is what I suspected.

[peyton randolph]

Must be hard keeping those rose-colored glasses on all day long.

Harder than keeping on your tinfoil hat. I hear you use superglue.

[Lancer_N3502A]

Excellent read

[Doctor Stochastic]

What was Halliburton's role in this?

A Halliburton subsidary, Brown & Root, built many of the Pacific air bases during WWII. Brown & Root was one of LBJ's big supporters even then.