Home-schooling in the modern world: Success of home-schooled children

Seattle Times ^ | November 29, 2005 | Shaunti Feldhahn

[RFEngineer]

"I'm not sure why I see so much hostility to homeschooling statistics "

The statistics are self-selecting and misleading. I'm pointing it out and not backing down, and so far I've been challenged only with anecdotes - do not mistake it for hostility, though. I wish no homeschooler anything but the best.

I never said you shouldn't compare your kids to the population in public schools, I said it was pointless.

If you are satisfied that your kids are doing better than a population that contains a lot of low-achieving dysfunctional urban school districts (as just one example), then fine.

What you probably want to compare your children to is a statistically valid population of high-achieving kids.

I totally disagree with you about the value of anecdotes used with statistical analysis. In this case, the statistics are flawed - so what are the anecdotes supporting? I can also provide alternative anecdotes that lead to opposite conclusions (since no proof is required - it's an anecdote!) - so this sort of "analysis" rapidly degrades into nothing more than an exercise in imaginations

[wintertime]

"As to fat kids.....I know a fat homeschooler so my anecdote is just as valid as anyone elses on this."

I know fat homeschoolers too. They were not raised and educated in the home from the beginning.

[JoeGar]

Wow! Impressive.

[RFEngineer]

"I know fat homeschoolers too. They were not raised and educated in the home from the beginning."

Ok, fine. Is your conclusion public school makes kids fat?

Just wondering.

[JoeGar]

You have to compare kids with the same social background.

I think you are correct, but I've never known any home-schooled kids that come from very rich or very poor families. All are very middle income.

[metmom]

Considering the poor quality food served in the school cafeterias and the lack of physical activity that public school provides, I'm sure it's a contributing factor. These kids are in school what? 5-6 hours a day mostly at desks. They should be moving more than that.

[usmom]

Most of my kids have done both and public school was much, much harder, not to mention ridiculous, for the short time we tried it. I well recall my oldest daughter coming home with 4 completed art projects and all of her math and language to be done

This was my experience, also. My daughter missed the last 6 weeks of first semester in 1st grade due to illness. The first week, the teacher sent home her work. Working just a little bit every day for a week (with a sick child), we easily completed all of it. I took it in the next week and asked for another week's worth. The teacher gave me this wierd look and said, I sent you everything until Christmas vacation already last week! That's when a light went off in my head and I wondered what the *()& those kids did in school all day, anyway. I'm now in my 4th year of homeschooling my three children, including my 6yo, who has never stepped foot in so much as a preschool. I will never look back.

[RFEngineer]

"Considering the poor quality food served in the school cafeterias and the lack of physical activity that public school provides, I'm sure it's a contributing factor. "

So public school makes kids fat, right?

[TontoKowalski]

Having read the entire thread, I'm responding just to you, even though comments may address remarks made by other posters. Because you're handy and I'm too lazy to go back and pick those posts out.

Although we homeschool and obviously support the "movement," I do think your comments on statistics have some validity, although I think the valid comparison is not between social class or whatnot.

The comparison should be between homeschooled kids and public school kids with involved parenting (although that could be hard to define). My old college roommate teaches in a public school, and he tells me the most valid indicator of success is parental involvement (which he defines as regular communication between parent and teacher, interest and attendance at parent/teacher meetings, parental tracking of assignments...). He says that if the parent is involved, the student will succeed academically. The correlation between success and parental involvement is more reliable than factors such as race, gender, income level.

I also think the rationale that homeschooled kids are an "elite" group is flawed. In many cases, homeschooled kids have never been to public school, so the idea that parents decide they're not challenged enough doesn't hold water. If they've never been to PS, how can the parents know if they'd be challenged or not?

Finally (and not addressed specifically to you) this thread shows the variety of methods used in homeschooling. I'm not surprised at folks who say "formal" schooling only takes two hours, but that's not the case at our house. Of course, the day is broken up by various activities, but we still spend about four hours a day at the kitchen table.

For the record, I don't believe homeschooling is for everyone. I support parents making the right choice for their own families.

[RFEngineer]

"The comparison should be between homeschooled kids and public school kids with involved parenting (although that could be hard to define). "

100% agree.

I moved where I moved specifically because of the public schools (I moved away from where I moved away from for the same reason). If we couldn't have moved, we may well have homeschooled.

There are plenty of good reasons to homeschool - but they don't universally apply - which some folks can't seem to believe.

So a robust set of options that include public, private, and homeschool opportunities is the best of all worlds.

[metmom]

Parents can decide whether their kids are challenged enough by seeing how they do on their tests and whether or not the kids find the work too easy. My oldest daughter fought her 2nd grade math tooth and nail, and I knew she could do it. Then one day in frustration, she blurted out "THIS IS SO BORING!" Bingo. We jumped up a couple of grade levels, just enough so that she began to have a little trouble with the work, and problem solved. She completed high school in 3 years and is now going to public school HS for her senior year just as a boredom preventer and she finally told me today, that she just learned something new in her AP Physics class. They're challenged enough when they have to work at it.

[TontoKowalski]

Hi, I think you may have misunderstood my post. It's late, and I'm tired, so I probably wasn't clear enough.

What I intended to say was that I disagreed to some extent with another member's contention that homeschoolers came predominantly from the ranks of public school students who were not challenged at school. (these are my words, not necessarily his)

What I was saying was that many homeschoolers have never been to public school at all, so they couldn't have been homeschooled for that reason.

[esquirette]

How did you get them in college at 12? I have a 14 year old homeschooled daughter who is ready. . . .

[MortMan]

The statistics are self-selecting and misleading. I'm pointing it out and not backing down, and so far I've been challenged only with anecdotes - do not mistake it for hostility, though. I wish no homeschooler anything but the best.

Just to clarify my statement, I did not sense hostility toward homeschoolers - just the statistics.

I don't think I agree on your population selection issue. To use only high achievers from the public (or private) school domain would skew the homeschooler statistics the other way - make them look worse than they should. Right or wrong, school performance statistics are predicated on a population selected by age and grade, not by performance. Further, I believe that to select the population by performance when computing a performance statistic is an invalid methodology.

At any rate, I would hope we can agree that nearly all statistics are self-selecting and misleading, to some extent. Basically, statistics are meant to be trend analysis, and are the compilation of hundreds or thousands of anecdotes (using a specified measuring stick).

For my kids, I based my anecdote on their own performance before and after they entered homeschool. On an individual level, I don't believe it to be productive to compare individuals against each other - whether they belong to the same demographic group or not. Measuring their personal success numerically in the two different situations, though, is a valid methodology for evaluating the efficacy of the schooling arena.

Have a good day.

[wintertime]

Do Government schools make kids fat?

Correlation is not necessarily causation.

It is merely my anecdotal observation that I have never met a fat homeschooler who has been in the home from the beginning.Actually,even this observation may be faulty. There may not even be a correlation.

I suspect that I have never met a fat homeschooler is due to the efficiency of homeschooling and the massive amount of large muscle play that homeschooled children enjoy. This and the fact that their mother is their only "cafeteria-worker".

[wintertime]

parental tracking of assignments...). Tonto

Tonto,

What this "tracking of assignments" is REALLY homeschooling. It is the parents who are really teaching the kids.

That is why I say that ALL academically successful children are homeschooled. It does not matter if they attend school or not. The only thing that the school is doing is sending home a free curriculum for the parents to supervise.

However,,,,While the parents of schooled children are doing the real teaching, the school is wasting enormous amounts of time that should be spent in active play.

[wintertime]

How did you get them in college at 12? I have a 14 year old homeschooled daughter who is ready. . . .

Esquirette,

I needed to go back to work briefly to maintain my professional license. So.....What to do with my homeschooled kids?

I took them over to the community college for testing. We were amazed that they tested college level. The counselor at the community college suggested that we enroll them at the college.

We then contacted the government school and explained the situation. The government school then told us that children could attend the community college if they were "gifted and talented".

We had them tested at our state children's hospital. They proved to be in the high 90th percentile in math. Hey!....this was not hard since the I.Q. test merely compared their knowledge to those of schooled children. Since my kids were 4 years ahead of their schooled contemporaries they scored very high on the test.

That is how they were admitted to community college.

Once they had 30 credits at the community college, the state university was required by law to accept them as regular matriculated students.

We have lived in two states during this process. Our second state would not admit students unless they had passed the GED or were aged 18. Of course, it is a Catch 22 since they are not allowed to take the exam until they are 18. The older children had no problem since they had 30 credits. They youngest was accepted to a private college and did work there for one year to finish the 30 credits she needed for admission to the state university.

You may want to investigate private on-line college or a campus based private college in your area. Once she has the needed credits, being admitted to you local community college or state university may be straight forward.

You may need to make some phone calls.

By the way,,,,we did not think it was a good idea for our children to live on campus. They were still kids. They lived at home.

[wintertime]

So a robust set of options that include public, private, and homeschool opportunities is the best of all worlds.

RFengineer.

The best set of options is to completely dump government schooling. They are unconstitutional on a state and federal level. Then develop a "robust" system of private universal K-12 schools for those who do not or can not homeschool.

The following is an excellent essay explaining why government schools are unconstitutional and trample the free conscience of citizens:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter9.htm

[MEGoody]

You're really joking, right?

I don't know if he's joking or not, but none of us can deny that the NEA and liberals in general would love to see home schooling done away with. I very much doubt they will succeed - at least not in the near term. That doesn't mean they won't do whatever they can to disrupt homeschooling and keep it from becoming widespread.

[SauronOfMordor]

To wit: I submit to you that kids with true ADHD/ADD (I believe it's overdiagnosed in a big way - but I'm not a doctor or a psychologist) aren't homeschooled as much because the parents can't teach them (or find it very difficult) so they enroll them in public school (not all - but a high proportion) where it becomes societies problem (that's not a criticism, by the way) and the resources of society, through public schools can be deployed to address the need.

My youngest one, currenty being homeschooled, is ADHD. He s homeschooled precisely BECAUSE she's ADHD, and the local public school couldn't deal with her. Rather than accept her assignment to a "special" school where she would be warehoused with other kids with even bigger problems than hers, we decided to homeschool her alongside the other two.

She's making very good progress with the individualized attention