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Did Texas execute an innocent man?
Houston Chronicle ^ | Nov. 19, 2005 | LISE OLSEN

Posted on 11/19/2005 4:20:16 PM PST by Ninian Dryhope

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To: al_again

It is the law that is poorly written not the punishment. Blame the judges that will only follow the rules after the verdict and the system that wont allow (facts)to be admitted if found later or time tables used that wont allow subission of late evidence even if the lawyers are known to be retarded or drunk. The system is so clogged with judges that only want to work 20 hour weeks and judges that cant be held accountable to what they decide. Lawyers that want to be paid for every hour in the week bankrupting the government. The punishment of death works as a deterrant on every person that it is used. no one has ever recommited any offence. A gun without a person behind it wont kill. The death penalty wont kill if used properly. Both are needed in this world at times and are effective when used properly.


41 posted on 11/19/2005 5:57:56 PM PST by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: al_again

very true and there is to much (profit motive) in the legal profession.


42 posted on 11/19/2005 6:00:50 PM PST by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: bdfromlv
The punishment of death works as a deterrant on every person that it is used. no one has ever recommited any offence

True, but only with your qualification. There is no statistical evidence (at least that I am aware of) that suggests the death penalty actually deters crime (reduces the incidents of murder). The real deterrent for crime is concealed weapons and right to defend laws. These laws have significant impact as the general public has a right to defend themselves. This is a far more effective deterrent than any punishment currently allowed by US law.

43 posted on 11/19/2005 6:08:48 PM PST by al_again
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To: Ninian Dryhope

It's not "Did Texas execute an inocent man"? It's "How many inocent men did Texas execute"? And the answer is none.


44 posted on 11/19/2005 6:15:41 PM PST by Phlap (REDNECK@LIBARTS.EDU)
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To: Ninian Dryhope

45 posted on 11/19/2005 6:36:59 PM PST by jdontom (BacktheBadge)
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To: Ninian Dryhope

Did Bill Clinton execute a Black Man with an IQ below 75?


46 posted on 11/19/2005 6:37:25 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: al_again

The death penalty is not meant as a learning tool but as the final solution to an evil criminal. The deterent factor of the death penalty is only meant for the convicted. Name one that has not been detered or one you would like to live with you for 20 years if you were unfortunate enough to be in a prison cell.


47 posted on 11/19/2005 6:40:00 PM PST by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: Ninian Dryhope
I get so sick of the left claiming we are "executing a teenager" No. We are executing an adult who - while in his teen years - committed great evil.

They are so disinginuous and word smith to the point of destroying the English language.

48 posted on 11/19/2005 6:45:30 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (never surrender, this is for the kids)
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To: bdfromlv
A list who were deterred - and then released.

Sorry for the formatting...

1 David Keaton FL B 1971 1973 2 Charges Dismissed
2 Samuel A. Poole NC B 1973 1974 1 Charges Dismissed
3 Wilbert Lee FL B 1963 1975 12 Pardoned
4 Freddie Pitts FL B 1963 1975 12 Pardoned
5 James Creamer GA W 1973 1975 2 Charges Dismissed
6 Christopher Spicer NC B 1973 1975 2 Acquitted
7 Thomas Gladish NM W 1974 1976 2 Charges Dismissed
8 Richard Greer NM W 1974 1976 2 Charges Dismissed
9 Ronald Keine NM W 1974 1976 2 Charges Dismissed
10 Clarence Smith NM W 1974 1976 2 Charges Dismissed
11 Delbert Tibbs FL B 1974 1977 3 Charges Dismissed
12 Earl Charles GA B 1975 1978 3 Charges Dismissed
13 Jonathan Treadway AZ W 1975 1978 3 Acquitted
14 Gary Beeman OH W 1976 1979 3 Acquitted
15 Jerry Banks GA B 1975 1980 5 Charges Dismissed
16 Larry Hicks IN B 1978 1980 2 Acquitted
17 Charles Ray Giddens OK B 1978 1981 3 Charges Dismissed
18 Michael Linder SC W 1979 1981 2 Acquitted
19 Johnny Ross LA B 1975 1981 6 Charges Dismissed
20 Ernest (Shuhaa) Graham CA B 1976 1981 5 Acquitted
21 Annibal Jaramillo FL L 1981 1982 1 Charges Dismissed
22 Lawyer Johnson MA B 1971 1982 11 Charges Dismissed
23
Larry Fisher
MS
W
1984
1985
1
Acquitted

24 Anthony Brown FL B 1983 1986 3 Acquitted
25 Neil Ferber PA W 1982 1986 4 Charges Dismissed
26 Clifford Henry Bowen OK W 1981 1986 5 Charges Dismissed
27 Joseph Green Brown FL B 1974 1987 13 Charges Dismissed
28 Perry Cobb IL B 1979 1987 8 Acquitted
29 Darby (Williams) Tillis IL B 1979 1987 8 Acquitted
30
Vernon McManus TX W 1977 1987 10 Charges Dismissed
31 Anthony Ray Peek FL B 1978 1987 9 Acquitted
32 Juan Ramos FL L 1983 1987 4 Acquitted
33 Robert Wallace GA B 1980 1987 7 Acquitted
34 Richard Neal Jones OK W 1983 1987 4 Acquitted
35 Willie Brown FL B 1983 1988 5 Charges Dismissed
36 Larry Troy FL B 1983 1988 5 Charges Dismissed
37 Randall Dale Adams TX W 1977 1989 12 Charges Dismissed
38 Robert Cox FL W 1988 1989 1 Charges Dismissed
39 Timothy Hennis NC W 1986 1989 3 Acquitted
40
James Richardson FL B 1968 1989 21 Acquitted
41 Clarence Brandley TX B 1981 1990 9 Charges Dismissed
42 John C. Skelton TX W 1983 1990 7 Acquitted
43 Dale Johnston OH W 1984 1990 6 Charges Dismissed
44 Jimmy Lee Mathers AZ W 1987 1990 3 Acquitted
45 Gary Nelson GA B 1980 1991 11 Charges Dismissed
46 Bradley P. Scott FL W 1988 1991 3 Acquitted
47 Charles Smith IN B 1983 1991 8 Acquitted
48 Jay C. Smith PA W 1986 1992 6 Acquitted
49 Kirk Bloodsworth MD W 1984 1993 9 Charges Dismissed Yes
50
Federico M. Macias TX L 1984 1993 9 Charges Dismissed
51 Walter McMillian AL B 1988 1993 5 Charges Dismissed
52 Gregory R. Wilhoit OK W 1987 1993 6 Acquitted
53 James Robison AZ W 1977 1993 16 Acquitted
54 Muneer Deeb TX O 1985 1993 8 Acquitted
55 Andrew Golden FL W 1991 1994 3 Charges Dismissed
56 Joseph Burrows IL W 1989 1994 5 Charges Dismissed
57 Adolph Munson OK B 1985 1995 10 Acquitted
58 Robert Charles Cruz AZ L 1981 1995 14 Acquitted
59 Rolando Cruz IL L 1985 1995 10 Acquitted Yes
60
Alejandro Hernandez IL L 1985 1995 10 Charges Dismissed Yes
61 Sabrina Butler MS B 1990 1995 5 Acquitted
62 Verneal Jimerson IL B 1985 1996 11 Charges Dismissed Yes
63 Dennis Williams IL B 1979 1996 17 Charges Dismissed Yes
64 Roberto Miranda NV L 1982 1996 14 Charges Dismissed
65 Gary Gauger IL W 1993 1996 3 Charges Dismissed
66 Troy Lee Jones CA B 1982 1996 14 Charges Dismissed
67 Carl Lawson IL B 1990 1996 6 Acquitted
68 David Wayne Grannis AZ W 1991 1996 5 Charges Dismissed
69 Ricardo Aldape Guerra TX L 1982 1997 15 Charges Dismissed
70
Benjamin Harris WA B 1985 1997 12 Charges Dismissed
71 Robert Hayes FL B 1991 1997 6 Acquitted
72
Christopher McCrimmon
AZ
B
1993
1997
4
Acquitted

73 Randall Padgett AL W 1992 1997 5 Acquitted
74 James Bo Cochran AL B 1976 1997 21 Acquitted
75 Robert Lee Miller, Jr. OK B 1988 1998 10 Charges Dismissed Yes
76 Curtis Kyles LA B 1984 1998 14 Charges Dismissed
77 Shareef Cousin LA B 1996 1999 3 Charges Dismissed
78 Anthony Porter IL B 1983 1999 16 Charges Dismissed
79 Steven Smith IL B 1985 1999 14 Acquitted
80
Ronald Williamson OK W 1988 1999 11 Charges Dismissed Yes
81
Ronald Jones IL B 1989 1999 10 Charges Dismissed Yes
82 Clarence Dexter, Jr. MO W 1991 1999 8 Charges Dismissed
83 Warren Douglas Manning SC B 1989 1999 10 Acquitted
84 Alfred Rivera NC L 1997 1999 2 Charges Dismissed
85 Steve Manning IL W 1993 2000 7 Charges Dismissed
86 Eric Clemmons MO B 1987 2000 13 Acquitted
87 Joseph Nahume Green FL B 1993 2000 7 Charges Dismissed
88 Earl Washington VA B 1984 2000 16 Pardoned Yes
89 William Nieves PA L 1994 2000 6 Acquitted
90
Frank Lee Smith
** died prior to exoneration FL
B
1986
2000 **
14
Charges Dismissed
Yes
91
Michael Graham
LA
W
1987
2000
13
Charges Dismissed

92 Albert Burrell LA W 1987 2000 13 Charges Dismissed
93 Oscar Lee Morris CA B 1983 2000 17 Charges Dismissed
94 Peter Limone MA W 1968 2001 33 Charges Dismissed
95 Gary Drinkard AL W 1995 2001 6 Charges Dismissed
96 Joaquin Jose Martinez FL L 1997 2001 4 Acquitted
97 Jeremy Sheets NE W 1997 2001 4 Charges Dismissed
98 Charles Fain ID W 1983 2001 18 Charges Dismissed Yes
99 Juan Roberto Melendez FL L 1984 2002 18 Charges Dismissed
100
Ray Krone AZ W 1992 2002 10 Charges Dismissed Yes
101
Thomas Kimbell, Jr. PA W 1998 2002 4 Acquitted
102 Larry Osborne KY W 1999 2002 3 Charges Dismissed
103 Aaron Patterson IL B 1986 2003 17 Pardoned
104 Madison Hobley IL B 1987 2003 16 Pardoned
105 Leroy Orange IL B 1984 2003 19 Pardoned
106 Stanley Howard IL B 1987 2003 16 Pardoned
107 Rudolph Holton FL B 1986 2003 16 Charges Dismissed
108 Lemuel Prion AZ W 1999 2003 4 Charges Dismissed
109 Wesley Quick AL W 1997 2003 6 Acquitted
110 John Thompson LA B 1985 2003 18 Acquitted
111 Timothy Howard OH B 1976 2003 26 Charges Dismissed
112 Gary Lamar James OH B 1976 2003 26 Charges Dismissed
113 Joseph Amrine MO B 1986 2003 17 Charges Dismissed
114 Nicholas Yarris PA W 1982 2003 21 Charges Dismissed Yes
115 Alan Gell NC W 1998 2004 6 Acquitted
116 Gordon Steidl IL W 1987 2004 17 Charges Dismissed
117 Laurence Adams MA B 1974 2004 30 Charges Dismissed
118 Dan L. Bright LA B 1996 2004 8 Charges Dismissed
119 Ryan Matthews LA B 1999 2004 5 Charges Dismissed Yes
120
Ernest Ray Willis
TX
W
1987
2004
17
Charges Dismissed

121
Derrick Jamison
OH
B
1985
2005
20
Charges Dismissed

122
Harold Wilson
PA
B
1989
2005
16
Acquitted
Y
49 posted on 11/19/2005 6:52:06 PM PST by al_again
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To: al_again

Well done, as you show the system works. Are you saying that because some racist, bigotted and basicly stupid and some criminal members of the legal profession have attempted to railroad innocent people, the death penalty for truly evil persons should not be allowed. As science and investigation techniques progress (beyond a doubt) is provable. The past has been brutal and has helped us get to the real proof of criminal actions. As long as good people stand up for the equal rights of all, truly evil persons can be removed and put to death.


50 posted on 11/19/2005 7:10:07 PM PST by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: RadioAstronomer
As a supporter of the death penalty, I limit that support to only those cases in which there is no other plausible explanation. Texas, on the other hand, apparently treats the death penalty as a cursory event that is used to clear a case from the police blotter and the prosecutor's in-basket. Thus, the existence of mistaken application in Texas is not a random, unanticipated and unusual occurrence.

The Texas judiciary appears to have become merely an arm of the prosecutor's staff and the trial and appellate courts treat executing someone who is probably guilty, but plausibly not, as cavalierly as does a ruthless actual criminal who kills indiscriminately as just another part of his criminal act.

As otherwise reprehensible as was the former governor of Illinois in matters of political corruption, his analysis of the way in which the death penalty was routinely applied in his state, as well as several others, including Texas, was palpably correct. The subject of this post and the Houston newspaper's investigation was just another elimination of a political inconvenience and another instance of election proof of how ostensibly tough elected politicians can shout to their constituents. At the end of the process, the achieving of justice, the reduction of crime, effecting a retribution for society or deterrence to others similarly inclined are of little significance.

In these questionable cases, the real ulterior objective seems to be the breast-beating and satisfying of the crowd's shouting for blood; someone's blood, anyone's blood that law enforcement and prosecutors choose whether truly guilty or not. Notwithstanding the reality that it will be an irremediable error if subsequent facts show they're wrong, if such turns out to be the case, that is a mere non sequitur that is to be shrugged off as an unfortunate event but not really meaningful in the larger scheme of society. And besides, if he wasn't guilty of the crime for which he was executed, he certainly was a bad guy and no doubt guilty of something equally heinous and thus deserving of his fate.

51 posted on 11/19/2005 7:12:31 PM PST by middie
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To: Ninian Dryhope

"Cantu claimed they argued over the pool game and he fired only after De La Luz showed him a gun in his waistband and threatened him. Cantu never denied to his friends and his family that he shot De La Luz, though he told them he learned only afterward that De La Luz was a policeman."

And that is why I don't care anything about this turd.

Too bad the 5/0 didn't air condition this jerk right there in the bar. It would certainly have saved the costly trial/appeals/incarceration/pottasium cloride expenses.


52 posted on 11/19/2005 7:23:42 PM PST by jaguaretype (Sometimes war IS the answer)
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To: Ninian Dryhope

I used to be all in favor of the death penalty, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm pretty sure there are overzealous prosecutors around, I KNOW there are some lawyers around that you can't trust with 25 cents,I wouldn't want to trust them with my life. As long as you are in prison you could hope for new evidence that would exonerate you.


53 posted on 11/19/2005 7:24:29 PM PST by Quickgun
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To: Ninian Dryhope

A man was killed.
A man was executed for the killing.
Point made.
Strelnikoff!


54 posted on 11/19/2005 7:26:56 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: SouthTexas

Cry me a river for this junk that shot another guy (an off duty cop at that) over a pool game!

A pool game!!

So excuse me if his cred just isn't quite up to par.

Sometimes things just work out for the best and this is one of those times.


55 posted on 11/19/2005 7:29:49 PM PST by jaguaretype (Sometimes war IS the answer)
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To: SouthTexas

I guess my point is this guy wasn't a "Lenell Jeter" type guy.

Mistakes might be made but it all works out sometimes and I can't find any sympathy for this jerk.


56 posted on 11/19/2005 7:35:14 PM PST by jaguaretype (Sometimes war IS the answer)
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To: DoughtyOne

I have a nice Cuban Puro awaiting the news on Tookie.
3 more weeks. And Ahnold in office instead of Cruz Bustamecha. Tookie could probably do some adverising for Depends about now.


57 posted on 11/19/2005 7:38:59 PM PST by jaguaretype (Sometimes war IS the answer)
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To: Ninian Dryhope

To 99% of all the stupid libs, they will associate this story with Bush, even though Texas executed him on Aug. 24, 1993, when Ma Richards was governor.

Bush was well over a year away from being the governor of Texas.


58 posted on 11/19/2005 7:40:21 PM PST by HighWheeler (A culture of civility can't be established if truth's irrelevant to one side of the political debate)
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To: Ninian Dryhope
After midnight, Cantu was shooting 35-cent pool games at the Scabaroo Lounge, a fluorescent-lit local hangout about a mile from his father's home.

An off-duty police officer who was a stranger to Cantu was playing at another table with a cousin. Officer Joe De La Luz wore two guns under his civilian clothes, according to records.

De La Luz later claimed under oath that Cantu shot him four times in a completely unprovoked attack. "I remember a person standing in front of me firing an unknown caliber weapon at me," De La Luz said. Cantu claimed they argued over the pool game and he fired only after De La Luz showed him a gun in his waistband and threatened him. Cantu never denied to his friends and his family that he shot De La Luz, though he told them he learned only afterward that De La Luz was a policeman.

Yet Cantu never was convicted of shooting the officer, despite a bar full of witnesses and his own admissions. "There was an overreaction, and some of the evidence may have been tainted. It could not be prosecuted," said former homicide Sgt. Bill Ewell, who oversaw the investigation. Defense attorneys claimed that police illegally searched Cantu's home the night of the shooting.

Who knows how many cold-blooded killings Cantu got away with?
Oh, they executed the right guy alright.

59 posted on 11/19/2005 7:50:11 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: goldstategop
I've yet to see them produce evidence he was innocent. The absence of evidence is not proof the death penalty was unjustly sought against this murderer

Very true. When the key witness recant his testimony and claims to pressured by the police it is not a proof of the innocence.

60 posted on 11/19/2005 7:52:05 PM PST by A. Pole (CEO of CISCO: "What we're trying to do is outline an entire strategy of becoming a Chinese company.")
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