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Jewish Leader Blasts 'Religious Right'
AP ^ | Nov. 19, 2005 | Kristen Hays

Posted on 11/19/2005 3:40:09 PM PST by Alouette

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To: Alouette

I do not understand the Reform Jews membership numbers:

They say they have 1.5 million members in 900 synagogues. That is an average of 1,700 members per synagogue.

Meanwhile, the Southern Baptists as an example have 17 million members in 41,000 churches or an average of 400 members per church.

The Presbyterian Church USA has an average membership of just over 200 members per church.

It certainly appears the Reformed Jews are grossly exaggerating their importance. Perhaps they only have about 250,000 members.


221 posted on 11/20/2005 1:08:56 PM PST by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: Presbyterian Reporter
They say they have 1.5 million members in 900 synagogues. That is an average of 1,700 members per synagogue.

There is no census or actual membership count. These numbers are based on the "National Jewish Population Survey" which a phone poll of numbers dialed at random and asking the person who answers, "Are you Jewish?" If the answer is "yes" the person is asked questions about the level of observance. Reform estimates its "membership" based on the number of people whose observance is "minimal or none."

In Israel, a country of 5 million Jews, less than 5,000 are members of a Reform temple.

222 posted on 11/20/2005 1:41:16 PM PST by Alouette (Gaza: Too small to be a country, too large to be an insane asylum (thanx: Pettigru).)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
We don't have Christians for Mohammed but we do have Christians for Buddha (Buddhist Christians, Zen Christians, Christian Mystics, etc). It disgusts me. Still, I recognize their right to their own beliefs. Besides, that's just one of many apostasies. We also have the "Christians" who think you don't even have to repent of your sins to come to Christ. Jesus said "repent and turn to God" but somehow they have warped that into meaning you just need to repent of your unbelief, not of your sins. It's pitiful. We have so many "Christians" corrupting the true gospel of Jesus Christ that it is unbelievable. Well, it's like the false prophets of the Old Testament. We have many false teachers. Not everyone who calls himself "Christian" really is one.

BTW, there are many holes in your comparison to Mohammed. Jesus fulfilled many OT prophesies. Not so with Mohammed.

I've been surprised to learn that many Jews think many Christians will go to heaven based on their keeping of God's law. How can they think we keep God's law when we worship Jesus as God's Son? It's nice, but I would think no less of them if they thought I was headed for hell. They can't send me there. I'm comfortable with my own beliefs. Let each person be true to his own faith. As for evangelism, the freedom to persuade without the power to force is all anyone needs. That gives false teachers and preachers and prophets just as many rights as true ones. So be it. We will all answer to our Maker in the end.

223 posted on 11/20/2005 2:22:46 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past ("The President and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone)
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To: Alexander Rubin

What is Lexington style?


224 posted on 11/20/2005 5:08:19 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
A Jew is anyone born of a Jewish mother or Halakhically converted to Judaism, regardless of belief or lack of it. If atheists, b*ddhists, and pagans can be Halakhically Jewish I see no reason why that adjective should be denied to "Hebrew chr*stians."
If you are Jewish and you chose another religion, you are an Apostate of Jewish descent and a member of the new religious community, not a Jew.

I once met a young man who believed the Written Torah was from Heaven but who rejected the rest of the Bible (as well as the Oral Torah) and even rejected the doctrine of an afterlife. While he certainly was not an Orthodox Jew, I fail to see why his belief system failed to qualify as a "branch of Judaism" just as much as "reform," "reconstructionism," and "secular humanistic Judaism."

This is a due to the arrogance of the more established Jewish communities.

225 posted on 11/20/2005 9:41:56 PM PST by rmlew (Sedition and Treason are both crimes, not free speech.)
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To: Alouette

I read once that Orthodox Jews are projected to become the majority, but I can't remember how may years for this to take place.


226 posted on 11/20/2005 10:49:15 PM PST by tuesday afternoon
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To: Alouette
From the Union's online Press Room: "The Union, which represents the largest branch of Judaism in North America, has a long history of opposition to war and was the first religious organization to oppose the War in Vietnam. In 1965, the Union’s General Assembly called for a cease-fire in Vietnam; four years later, the General assembly demanded an immediate ceasefire and the withdrawal of all troops no later than December 31, 1970."

So this is the leftist mouthpiece of the liberal Jews that have undermined the Jewish cause since the 60s.

Presently this leftist group is promoting ARZA (Association for Reform Zionist of America) in the upcoming national elections in Israel. The Union for Reform Judaism calls ARZA "a vote for the values which unite Reform/Progressive Jews and help to empower the growth of the Progressive Jewish Movement in Israel."

However, there are voices opposing the Israeli Reform movement. A click of my mouse found this one at the following site:

http://www.crisisisrael.com/display_commentary.php?cid=147

"The Reform movement has adopted the entire agenda of the American Left, down to and including bashing Israel for daring to defend itself. The Reform establishment is today barely distinct from the buffoons in the Tikkun-Aleph-Renewal cult of Michael Lerner and Arthur Waskow, other than the fact that they have not - yet - endorsed LSD use by Jews."

and,

"The Reform establishment opposes school choice for Jews and wants Jewish children confined to public schools; it supports every wacky idea to emerge from the most extremist environmentalist movements; it supports affirmative action quotas that discriminate against Jews; the number one item on its agenda these days is gay "marriage"; David Saperstein's comments opposing welfare reform were so outrageous that a few years back they were cited with approval by the American Communist Party newspaper. . . The Reform Establishment supports partial-birth abortion but vehemently opposes execution of convicted murderers and terrorists. It wants Israel to return to its 1949 borders with all "settlers" expelled. Reformies in Israel have led the anti-globalization hoodlums seeking to make the world safe for Marxism. . . It is not the religious parties who are responsible for the nation's self-destruction in Israel but the secularist ones, although the religious parties display cowardice in not stopping it. . .In an era when true believers in liberalism are an endangered species outside the Bay Area and Hollywood, the Reform establishment lobbies in the name of "Judaism" and "Biblical ethics" to impose its leftist political biases and lifestyle on all Jews and on the entire United States. It seeks to hijack Judaism, Jewish holidays and Jewish ethical authority on behalf of the PC fads of the liberal-Left."

227 posted on 11/20/2005 11:38:44 PM PST by jonrick46
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To: rmlew
If you are Jewish and you chose another religion, you are an Apostate of Jewish descent and a member of the new religious community, not a Jew.

Halakhically, the Jews are not so much a "religion" as a nation that has a covenant with G-d. A Jew who apostasizes to another religion is an apostate Jew and is subject to the Halakhic penalties prescribed for Jews who apostasize.

Meanwhile all non-Jews, regardless of religion or lack of it, are Halakhically Noachides, and thus any practicing Noachide who apostasizes to another religion is an apostate Noachide and subject to the Noachide penalties for apostasy.

What we both agree on is that a Jew who apostasizes to chr*stianity is not a "good Jew" or a "completed Jew" or a "true Jew" or any such thing. However, in the eyes of HaShem he remains a Jew and subject to penalties prescribed for Jews who apostasize.

228 posted on 11/21/2005 5:31:12 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vehe'emin BeHaShem, vayachsheveha lo tzedaqah.)
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To: Alouette; Salem; Esther Ruth; F15Eagle; agrace; RoadTest; timsbella; Alexander Rubin; jabotinsky; ..

This "rabbi" (and the term is used loosely) Yoffie character is just another stale, outdated, 1960s hippie leftover that just cannot seem to get his sorry-tired needle unstuck. Yada, yada, yada, same ole, same ole. Make him a gentile and he'd fit right in with any liberal Protestant or liberal Catholic group; they all say the same things. Religious Jews and Christian are all "awful people out to destroy people's rights, take over, the sky is falling, the sky is falling....." B-O-R-I-N-G!

This JINO carpetbagger needs to be seriously smacked upside his fool head with a very large, very wet fish (say a yellow-fin tuna).

This yahoo is about as representative of real Judaism as John Shelby Spong is representative of real Christianity.

Someone needs to tell this joker to go kiss their Dixie tailpipes in Hebrew or Yiddish (that is, if the idjit even knows either language).


229 posted on 11/21/2005 5:41:40 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (It really, truly is a "religion of peace", and the jihadistinian rioters in France prove it!)
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To: dennisw; sheik yerbouty

Ooops, sorry - forgot to ping you guys! RINO JINO needs serious smack with large wet fish ping!


230 posted on 11/21/2005 5:47:26 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (It really, truly is a "religion of peace", and the jihadistinian rioters in France prove it!)
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To: yarddog

It sounded like that to me initially, also.

But then I remembered that according to the practers of political correctness only cretain people are capable of hate.

They are:1. Christians .
2. White non homosexuals.
3. Gun owners.
4. Conservatives Republicans.
5. Black Republicans.

If a member of any of these groups say "Good Morning" to to political correctness crowd, including the alpabet members of the Democrat propaganda arm, it is hate speech.

The other side can say anything they wish and make any threat no natter how profane or vulgar about the groups numbered above and it is "freedom of speech".

If we are going to have an America very much longer, it is time to do as a great American named Earl Pitts says, "WAKE UP AMERICA".


231 posted on 11/21/2005 6:05:22 AM PST by sport
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To: Convert from ECUSA

Yoffie's a moron. If he's a real rabbi, then I'm the King of England!


232 posted on 11/21/2005 7:26:10 AM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Alouette

I wonder how he feels about Muslims...

He probably thinks they are a persecuted Minority, waging a Just War against the West.


233 posted on 11/21/2005 7:28:02 AM PST by Sometimes A River (Your hands and feet are mangoes, but you're gonna be a genius anyway)
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To: sheik yerbouty

Probably fubared his brain on drugs and radical pol lit when he was in college in the 60s. Still stuck in 1968. If he's a real rabbi, then I'm the next Pope after Benedict XVI!

As for you being the King of England.....I'd say you'd be a damn sight better successor to HM Elizabeth II than that no-count New Agey Muslim son of hers!

Personally, I think he's scared out of his too-tight drawers that the conservative Christians and conservative Jews will unite, and JINOs like him and his CINO counterparts will be out of business. People have a deep inner yearning for real meat and substance, and cotton candyism just doesn't cut it.


234 posted on 11/21/2005 7:39:08 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (It really, truly is a "religion of peace", and the jihadistinian rioters in France prove it!)
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To: Convert from ECUSA
"This ..guy.. needs to be seriously smacked upside his fool head with a very large, very wet fish (say a yellow-fin tuna)." Stop it, your making me laugh! I have no idea who this guy is be he found you a yellowfin tuna.
235 posted on 11/21/2005 8:38:44 AM PST by Esther Ruth (I have loved thee with an EVERLASTING LOVE, Jeremiah 31:3 Genesis 12:1-3 ***ZECH 12:3)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
It is a simple fact that the Jews are a nation in exile, not a "religious denomination."

Isn't it both?

It is interesting to note that Jews for Jesus is offensive in only one direction. Anyone who truly understands Christian theology understands why that is. Christianity cannot be separated from its jewish roots. Christians who don't get that end up distorting Christianity. Jews who become Christians easily get it. Obviously it means they are renouncing Judiasm from the time of Christ's death and resurrection forward. Obviously. (Can I point out that from a Christian perspective the Judaism of the OT does not seem to be the same religion in many ways as the Judaism of today, except of course for the moral values part.) The theology of Jews for Jesus is pure Christian theology. The offense to religous Jews who do not believe Jesus is their Messiah is obvious, but the doctrine is also obvious. It's just one of those things that can't be resolved. It's not intended to be an offense but it unavoidably is and always has been. As long as it's only Gentiles, the offense is easier to overlook. But Christianity itself is really the offense. That's the bottom line,

That said, in the political world it doesn't matter. We are allies, and frankly I have grown to appreciate religious Jews more than some Christians, as Christians can sometimes commit the offense of using grace to transform God into an unholy, sin-friendly, mushy sort of diety who bows to man rather than the other way around.

236 posted on 11/21/2005 9:29:35 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past ("The President and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone)
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To: Esther Ruth

Ah....thank you! That's what I was looking for! That will do nicely for smacking this Rabbi-in-Name-Only upside is pitiful-little-tired-sorry-addled-brained head!


237 posted on 11/21/2005 9:48:19 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (It really, truly is a "religion of peace", and the jihadistinian rioters in France prove it!)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
"Christians, as Christians can sometimes commit the offense of using grace to transform God into an unholy, sin-friendly, mushy sort of diety who bows to man rather than the other way around."


238 posted on 11/21/2005 9:50:22 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (It really, truly is a "religion of peace", and the jihadistinian rioters in France prove it!)
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To: Alouette

"Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the liberal Union for Reform Judaism.."

Nuff said.

The liberal Jewish establishment is to Judaism as the Methodist, Episcopalian and Presbyterian establishments are to Christianity - hogwash.


239 posted on 11/21/2005 10:01:25 AM PST by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Convert from ECUSA
I find it ironic that the "rah boy" complains about right-wingers being "intolerant," then spew a rant that is impossible to beat for its sheer bigotry and intolerance.

Did I say irony? Maybe we need to use a new word here: MORONY.

240 posted on 11/21/2005 10:07:42 AM PST by Alouette (Gaza: Too small to be a country, too large to be an insane asylum (thanx: Pettigru).)
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