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The Flawed Philosophy of Intelligent Design
Tech Central Station ^ | 11/17/2005 | James Harrington

Posted on 11/17/2005 11:27:22 AM PST by Nicholas Conradin

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To: Tenacious 1
Agnostic!

Better...

121 posted on 11/17/2005 1:46:01 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: WildHorseCrash

You mention evolution as a 'science'. Evolutionists have claimed that one species can become another species resulting in offspring of that new species. Let's take a look at the scientific method:

1. Observe some aspect of the universe.
2. Invent a tentative description, called a hypothesis, that is consistent with what you have observed.
3. Use the hypothesis to make predictions.
4. Test those predictions by experiments or further observations and modify the hypothesis in the light of your results.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until there are no discrepancies between theory and experiment and/or observation.

So here are the questions:

1) Have evolutionists predicted a new species coming from an existing species?
2) Have these predictions been tested and observed?

Have these questions been answered? These questions better be answered if you are going to parade evolution around as a fact and defend it as fact.


122 posted on 11/17/2005 1:47:49 PM PST by dmanLA
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To: Cicero

It is certainly true that Muslims have the same idea as the Christians who attack evolution.

quote: No Muslim Would Ever Say, "There Is Intelligent Design" Instead of "Allah Created"!

http://www.harunyahya.com/new_releases/news/intelligent_design.php

An excerpt:
"Intelligent Design" Is Another of Satan's Distractions

"In rejecting one false claim such as evolution, one must be very careful not to fall prey to another of Satan's snares. One of Satan's main objectives is to prevent the recognition of Allah by any means possible, and to cause people to ignore His remembrance.

"There are those whom Satan has not been able to deceive with the concept of evolution. But if he can divert them in another direction, such as that of "intelligent design" he will again have achieved his end, in turning people away from remembering Allah.

"How Satan manages to appear in the name of truth and causes people to deviate by obstructing truth is revealed in the Qur'an:

"He [Satan] said: "By Your misguidance of me, I will lie in ambush for them on your straight path. Then I will come at them, from in front of them and behind them, from their right and from their left. You will not find most of them thankful." (Qur'an, 7:16-17)

"It should be known that overturning the theory of evolution and revealing the "chance" mindset as invalid both demonstrate the existence of Allah, by Whom everything was created, and not of "intelligent design." "

See http://www.harunyahya.com/

Isn't this almost exactly what creationists and IDers say? Substitute "God" for "Allah" and "Bible" for "Qu'ran". The argument is the same.


123 posted on 11/17/2005 1:49:30 PM PST by thomaswest (Just Curious)
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To: WildHorseCrash
The question:

who has the last word regarding schooling, the gov't or parents?

Your response:

"Good point. I say parents. And as a parent, I want my child to learn the science of evolution. So don't try to fill his head with your religious nonsense and superstitious mumbo-jumbo."

Suppose a majority of school district patrons want, not a course taught, simply an ID statement read, whenever evolution is taught?

124 posted on 11/17/2005 1:50:39 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: layman
Well, I don't have a clue as to what either of these big words means, so I must be one of those dumb people he is talking about. It must be nice to be smart enough to understand how life began and how the universe came into being. I guess I'll just go back to reading my comic books now.

Actually you are smarter than you think. All the genius scientists think they know how life began and how the universe came into being even though they do not. You are smarter than them, because you know what you do not know. They don't.

Believe it or not, some of them actually believe that through the process of random mutation and natural selection all life evolved from some single celled organism to what we are today. You just cannot make this stuff up.
125 posted on 11/17/2005 1:52:05 PM PST by microgood
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To: JamesP81
I want my child to learn the truth that God fashioned the universe with his own hand, and I for darned sure don't want people like you trying to fill his head with your atheistic, evolutionary nonsense and pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo.

That's what church is for, James. Fill your kid's head, in your church, with as much religion as you want.

And furthermore, I don't want my tax dollars spent to teach such things that I disagree with.

Well, fortunately nothing in the law permits your mere status as a taxpayer to infuse science education with your religion. So what you want is, to put it bluntly, irrelevant.

It would appear, that we have a problem.

Nope. You have a problem, in that the schools are going to continue to teach science, while you fume away. But so long as we have a First Amendment to prevent religion from being taught in schools, I have no problem.

126 posted on 11/17/2005 1:52:58 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Right Wing Professor
Now that's funny. I know funny, and that's it...
127 posted on 11/17/2005 1:53:54 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Cicero
To clarify what I am asking for, no positive evidence for ID would need to reference arguments against another theory. IC doesn't pass this qualification as it is a test aimed at falsifying evolution, not ID.

Additionally, I am asking that you show me evidence that not only supports an intelligent designer, but would disprove that there was one if it that evidence had been different.

128 posted on 11/17/2005 1:54:53 PM PST by Antonello
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To: thomaswest

But I thought this line said just the opposite?

"But if he can divert them in another direction, such as that of "intelligent design" he will again have achieved his end, in turning people away from remembering Allah."

That you cannot believe in 'intelligent design' and believe in God (Allah) also.


129 posted on 11/17/2005 1:54:58 PM PST by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: Right Wing Professor
"All right. Some Christian creationists and IDers share some characteristics with the Taliban. Many are religiously intolerant. Many are Biblical or Koranic literalists. Many are as ignorant of science as the Talibunnies. And some have scarily similar views on the role of religion in the state."

The difference is in the religions themselves:

One requires you to accept God's ultimate sacrifice as a gift for your salvation. The other requires you to sacrifice your life for salvation. One gives you free will to accept the gift or not. The other requires you to battle/kill those who do not believe.
130 posted on 11/17/2005 1:56:30 PM PST by dmanLA
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To: 1stFreedom
Selection is an proactive process, something designed, and not a result of something else.

Maybe in your world, but that's not how natural selection works. Sorry.

Pressures are not proactive in achieving a desired end

The only desired end is surviving to reproduce succesfully. Those individuals that survive pass on their DNA, those that don't, do not. There are no other "ends" in biology.

A better term would be natural results, not selection.

You can call it "Dorothy" for all I care, the underlying process remains the same.

131 posted on 11/17/2005 1:58:06 PM PST by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: dmanLA

Go back to high-school, kid. "Prediction" in science doesn't mean what you think it means. And, yes, scientists studying the science of evolution has made plenty of predictions, which have borne it out.


132 posted on 11/17/2005 1:58:15 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: YHAOS
The question:

who has the last word regarding schooling, the gov't or parents?

Your choices are incomplete. You mentioned the greater collective of the state, and the lesser collective of the society of parents, but not the individual. Who gets the last word? In some circumstances it is the individual. You also forgot to include, as one of your choices, "the law."

Suppose a majority of school district patrons want, not a course taught, simply an ID statement read, whenever evolution is taught?

Again, because you forgot the to mention the individual, you set up a false dichotomy between the government and a majority of parents. The correct answer is that because the individual has a right not to have the state (or the parents acting through the state) take an action respecting the establishment of religion, the individual dissenter has the last word.

But, even in the absence of a dissenter, the law mandates that there are certain things which the government, even a unanimous government, has no power to do. And taking the act you describe is one of them.

133 posted on 11/17/2005 2:02:05 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: WildHorseCrash

"Go back to high-school, kid. "Prediction" in science doesn't mean what you think it means. And, yes, scientists studying the science of evolution has made plenty of predictions, which have borne it out."

I didn't think you had any REAL EVIDENCE.


134 posted on 11/17/2005 2:03:21 PM PST by dmanLA
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To: garybob
Science is knowing that the first phytoplanktons that actually created oxygen led to the largest die-off in the history of the planet as they pumped their lethal, toxic, noxious waste into the atmosphere. The creatures that were left were adapted to use oxygen. Over time, the phytoplanktons became plants, the remaining organisms founded the animal kingdom.

The real fact is, 98.5% of all life on earth died during that period. Your comparison is actually one of the strongest proofs *for* the "Survival of the Fittest" brand of Evolution, and *against* Intelligent Design, unless you believe the "Designer" decided to wipe out ninety-nine of every one hundred creatures he/she/it/FSM designed.
135 posted on 11/17/2005 2:04:32 PM PST by jnaujok (Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy.)
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To: WildHorseCrash
Well, fortunately nothing in the law permits your mere status as a taxpayer to infuse science education with your religion. So what you want is, to put it bluntly, irrelevant.

This is golden. Conservatives on FR are totally fine with the concept of lower taxes until someone threatens to defund the things they want. Then they get to use the power of the law to forcibly separate me from my money and spend on something that I'm opposed to, and they're OK with that.
136 posted on 11/17/2005 2:06:17 PM PST by JamesP81
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To: Right Wing Professor
Let's not forget the Harun Yahya. Creationists not only support them, they hired at least one as a witness from BAV. Few if any creationists even criticized this action; others defended hiring someone from an Islamic extremist organization.
137 posted on 11/17/2005 2:07:48 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: thomaswest
Isn't this almost exactly what creationists and IDers say? Substitute "God" for "Allah" and "Bible" for "Qu'ran". The argument is the same.

Good link. Keep posting them. I want as many evolutionists on FR on record comparing Creationists to extremist muslims. Just so everyone can see and there's no doubt where everyone stands.

Keep 'em coming.
138 posted on 11/17/2005 2:10:53 PM PST by JamesP81
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To: JamesP81
Good link. Keep posting them. I want as many evolutionists on FR on record comparing Creationists to extremist muslims. Just so everyone can see and there's no doubt where everyone stands.

Why are you so fond of being compared with extremist muslims?

139 posted on 11/17/2005 2:12:46 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: dmanLA
I didn't think you had any REAL EVIDENCE.

If by "real evidence" you mean 4,000 fairy tales about magic fruit and talking snakes, then no, I don't base my beliefs on anything like that.

140 posted on 11/17/2005 2:14:57 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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