Posted on 11/15/2005 6:51:13 AM PST by DTogo
The SOLUTION to the border problem is where the differences comes and I am damn tired of a bunch of single digit IQ morons yawlping about "law and order" and "enforcing the security laws" as though their was only one road to that goal, and it leads to an electrified border fence and a police state style roundup of all illegals. Further, I don't know whether or not the Freepers on the Immigration threads really are that brain dead stupid to think that opposing a police action to remedy this means that someone is for NO border control. It is the way the issue is often presented, and it is really hard to believe that anyone with more than 6 firing neurons would hold to such a cranially vacuous position. It is NOT the only solution. In fact it is not even a GOOD solution. As a final statement, it is a dumbass solution that would cause the loss of freedom here, needless suffering of catastrophic proportions, hostility (you wanna breed some terrorists?), a senseless removal of potential citizens we would love to have, a sudden shift to a declining population (you LIKE Europe, do you?) and an inflationary wage price spiral, among just a few things. I don't oppose the "clamp down the border and expel them" because I am some closet MeCHA activist. I oppose it because it is a BAD idea and it resonates with BAD consequences. There are other and better ways to fix this problem.
"I really think Bush doesn't know what the F**k he is doing."
He knows EXACTLY what he is doing.
See this, originally posted by "the gillman" (hope I'm not crossing the wrong line by not asking you first gillman, but more folks need to see this):
Start with this summary by Phyllis Schlafly, staunch conservative and friend to Ronald Reagan.
http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2005/july05/05-07-13.html
...This CFR document, called "Building a North American Community," asserts that George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin "committed their governments" to this goal when they met at Bush's ranch and at Waco, Texas on March 23, 2005. The three adopted the "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America" and assigned "working groups" to fill in the details....
This was the meeting where Bush called the Minutemen "Vigilantes."
...the CFR document calls for "a permanent tribunal for North American dispute resolution." Get ready for decisions from non-American judges who make up their rules ad hoc and probably hate the United States anyway...
Bye bye Constitution.
... The CFR document demands that we implement "the Social Security Totalization Agreement negotiated between the United States and Mexico." That's code language for putting illegal aliens into the U.S. Social Security system, which is bound to bankrupt the system...
Bye bye your retirement.
...U.S. taxpayers are supposed to create a major fund to finance 60,000 Mexican students to study in U.S. colleges...
How generous of you to support the higher education of all those foreignors. Will you have enough left over for your own children?
... The CFR document calls for allowing Mexican trucks "unlimited access" to the United States, including the hauling of local loads between U.S. cities...
Look out for that big scary truck!
Talk about drug smuggling and terrorist heaven.
... To ensure that the U.S. government carries out this plan so that it is "achievable" within five years, the CFR calls for supervision by a North American Advisory Council of "eminent persons from outside government....
See? You don't get to vote at all. You just get to pay and surrender your rights at the door.
You can see the plan here.
http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=8102
Pay particular attention the portion on "Dissenting Views."
That's where some say they haven't sold us out enough, and the the others say they'll have trouble with, "racists, xenophobes and nationalists" who aparrently don't approve of being robbed to support the utopian dream of these traitors.
The talking points of the OBL's on this site come directly from there.
Here's Senator John Cornyn's bill to establish the first building block of this momentous betrayal.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.2941:
Highlights:
SEC. 3. PURPOSES.
The purposes of the Fund shall be--
(1) to promote economic and infrastructure integration among Canada, Mexico, and the United States;
(2) to promote education and economic development in Mexico; and
(3) to reduce the wealth gap between Mexico and Canada, and between Mexico and the United States.
Reduce the wealth gap.
Pure Marxism, from your republican administration.
More:
SEC. 4. PROJECTS FUNDED.
(a) IN GENERAL- The Fund shall make grants for projects to carry out the purposes described in section 3, including projects--
(1) to construct roads in Mexico to facilitate trade between Mexico and Canada, and Mexico and the United States;
(2) to develop and implement post-secondary education programs in Mexico;
(3) to install telecommunications technologies throughout Mexico; and
(4) to construct other infrastructure that will carry out such purposes.
(Part two, there's your children's college fund, going to Mexicans.)
More:
SEC. 5. CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE FUND.
(a) IN GENERAL- The terms of the agreement establishing the Fund shall, subject to the limitation in subsection (b), require the Governments of Canada, Mexico, and the United States to contribute to the Fund.
(Governments? They're talking about pillaging your paychecks!)
The terms of the agreement establishing the Fund shall require that the Fund operate for an initial period of 10 years.
By then, there will be nothing left of the Republic.
How many illegals earn enough income to need to pay much in the way of income tax?
If you are really so stupid to believe that is what I am saying, then I will deny it for you. Saying that there are bad case laws is not the same thing as saying law is bad, Homer.
Require positive ID checks and S.S checks for all employees...fine/arrest/confiscate any employer that employs Illegal workers without correct and valid Soc.Sec and ID...prevent any aid to any "undocumenteds" except for humaitarian emergency medical aid...no illegals in schools/Colleges/welfare/FHA/Bank Loans ect.
I believe if you make it impossible to prosper illegally, they will leave...also arrest and deport all those at those "day labor" centers.
How about a 50% "tax" on all wire/cash transfers to Mexico...and let's cross check Auto Insurance with registrations and Welfare payments...we should be able to see the number of Lexus and Cadillacs and Navigators that are on Welfare!
It is very difficult to do in a country as free as the USA. Door to Door searches? Requiring citizens to carry documents with them at all times? Tell me how we can pick up all the illegals.
Um...if you drive, you HAVE to have ID at all times...I have my wallet and ID on me when I'm out...they are demanding "Matriclar" cards...why shouldn't they be expected to have ID? I am...I need it at the bank....when I use a check at the Grocery Store...hell, it's requested EVERYWHERE!
Nice straw-man you put up....but Halloween is over.
How about they just kick out the ones on welfare and the criminals. That'll diminish the numbers considerably. Chertoff is as bad as Chirac with this statement.
see, there you go again. Starting out nice and then in the first sentence of the next paragraph resorting to insults like "I am damn tired of a bunch of single digit IQ morons yawlping about "
You have shown yourself to be nothing more than a mindless member of the FROBL. You act like you're the intelligent and rational one, but when you start to make your argument, you can only bolster your position by attacking the people who want to control the border and immigration issue as "idiots" or "racists".
From this point on you are not to be taken seriously. You are nothing more than a shill like the other FROBL members before you. You are nothing more than a joke unable to make a rational case for your position.
You're joking of course. Say if one percent of those killed by the bounty hunter are legal citizens, the savings would disappear due to law suits. Also public support for the program would evaporate especially in areas away from the border.
There is not a single case of WalMart hiring an illegal alien. Not one. The recent fines were NOT a result of WalMart employees. They hired a contracting firm who employed illegals to clean their floors, and they were prosecuted for it. By that logic, I could prosecute you if you contracted a private trash pickup firm and they hired illegals, or I could prosecute you if you hired a roofing contractor and he employed illegals. It was a bad deal, but the fed gets what they want ("make a statement") because they are the almighty fed. You and the rest of the "close the border" loons are all for ceding more power to them. Enjoy your slave status.
The founding fathers included an amendment procedure in to the Constitution for a reason. I have never said nor do I favor "continually passing constitutional amendments to accomplish the same thing as they are ignored by activist courts." The process is difficult and should only be used to resolve hard issues. It has been and will be rare. I do favor a constitutional amendment on the definition of marriage if the state courts continue to approve the sanctioning of same sex marriage or perhaps eventually polagamy.
By your same 'logic', you'd see another amendment to restore first amendment rights violated by mccain feingold, instead of just bringing a case to the supreme court that overtuns mccain feingold.
No, I believe it is unconstitutional, but it was passed by the legislative branch. I would concentrate my efforts on overturning the law through the legislative branch. What I do object to is activist courts overturning the legislative branch.
Congratulations on one of the most bizarre interpretations of the constitutional process I've ever seen. You've outdone just about every constitutional scholar in the country with your "just add another amendment!" approach.
Congratulations on setting up a bogus strawman and then knocking it down. You can extrapolte all you want. I believe the only way we can redefine the definition of natural born citizen and the language contained in the 14th Amendment is to have another constitutional amendment. Any law trying to change the current definition will be challenged as being unconstitutional and will be uheld as being unconstitutional by SCOTUS.
What are they?
Ever wonder why you're the only person in this country to ever advocate this "let's make a new amendment all the time" approach?
I mean, seriously, I have never seen anyone argue such a bizarre approach to the constitution. You seriously need to step back and examine exactly what you are proposing, and think why NO ONE else in the country, hell, the world, thinks it should be done your way.
There wouldn't be anymore quotas not met, that's for sure.
Yes, I'm ready to amend the Constitution for this. After all, it was the 14th amendment that created this nightmare.
My answer to each and every new Republican Party money letter is, NO MORE MONEY UNTIL YOU SECURE OUR BORDERS...
I can wait...
"Stare Decisis". After close to a 150 years of precedent, you really think the Supreme Court is going to change the definition of citizenship? Doubt four Scalia clones would do that.
Well, I AM damn tired of it, and it IS a yalp, and I can't parse it much past single digit IQ reasoning. It is stupid, shortsighted, anti freedom in its effects, counter to the free market, and anti just about everything America should be...., except they do advocate speaking English.
attacking the people who want to control the border and immigration issue as "idiots" or "racists".
I don't attack the people "who want to control the border." I am disgusted with halfwits who, when they are confronted with the fact that there are other, pro-freedom, pro-market, pro-immigrant ways of getting control of our borders, suddenly lapse in to spasmodic cries of "quisling"(haven't seen it yet, but believe me, they will get around to it), or "MeCHA" (most of this crew would not know a MeCha shill if they bit them on the ass..., it is something they read about on World Net Daily), or "DU refugee."
I want to control the border, too. The current situation where someone can commit CAPITAL MURDER in a latin country and then come here and establish a new identity is lunacy. The "catch and release" program is horrible. The question is "HOW DO YOU GAIN CONTROL?" and the Immigration freepers are all in cars with one forward gear. This is NOT an issue where the "base" is in lock step, folks. You are VERY much like the delusional element of the DU on that part, sitting in a corner screeching to yourselves and dreaming about how the "people" are REALLY REALLY REALLY going to punish the politicians next go round because the thinking people are all on your side. You are dreaming.
What are they?
The best stuff I have seen are the immigration studies at CATO. Thanks for the question
I'm not joking. If a bounty hunter bags an American citizen then it's murder or kidnapping, and it's nobody's fault but the bounty hunter. Sure it's a risky profession. Perhaps there could be another program running for those not wanting to take such risks. Perhaps a $50 bounty for hot tips leading to the bagging of aliens.
bzzt. Wrong again.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=2869
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