Posted on 11/12/2005 5:36:04 AM PST by FerdieMurphy
(A little french lingo there to show I bear no malice towards froggies.)
Now you wrote to me: Your brand of "patriotism" is unwelcome.
I can't be certain what your brand is, but I know there's no benefit in it either. A suggestion comes to mind, however; don't read what I say if you so vehemently disagree.
I'll bet my new Mercedes that the ones who are fed up with our central government and our Congress would outnumber those who aren't.
Exactly correct.
The liars are the liars who are calling everyone other than themselves liars. LIAR!
Disinformation played loudly and strongly by liberal zealots works in a society tyrannized by politically correct demagoguery. It does not work with a free people. The Democrat party is imploding because it does not believe the American people are capable of independent thought. They continuously use the very scare tactics they deplore to foist their lies and deceptions on a public wise to their deceit.
Let's take this one step at a time.
I didn't write the article. I merely posted it for others to read and make comments.
I know all the additional facts of which you speak. I believe there were some serious weaponry that was buried and was whisked out of the country.
How could I believe otherwise when I knew that other rogue nations were dealing with Saddam Insane?
There's dotted lines all over the place.
And take my word for it.....I have a whole brain which functions very well.
That's as creepy a post as I thought you were capable of making. But you know that my post was not aimed at your feigned even-handed hatred of all politicians. Spout along with your Dem NK talking point. Remember to mention that the ancestry of the guidance systems goes back to the Krintons through Loral.
"Saddam from that point on bluffed his enemies - internal and elsewhere....."
If this is true, this explains the non-cooperation with the weapons inpectors (although there was still development work going on. The means to produce however were buried/warehoused/what have you. Then again there was the stockpile of uranium recently found, and the inventory of nerve gas shells that were still in the inventory. So there are still goods on Saddam). Yet he played the game with his neighbors "Maybe I have them, and maybe I don't. Want to find out?"
Thus Saddam tried to play poker with the weapons inspectors and the U.S., and lost big time.
-If our troops had found any WMD - especially enriched uranium or anything else of this nature - the White House would have the President over there standing next to it in the greatest PR offensive in history to vindicate him for going to war!!!-
That is total nonsense. The more people who know where and what it is, the more likely someone will come along and try to get a piece of it.
How dare you slander me with that vicious comment!!!
I dislike (not hate) ALL DemocRATs. I also dislike (not hate) many RepublicRATs!
There isn't an handed approach towards ALL politicians. Only the socialist, liberal, communist ones....like Leahy, Boxter, Feinswine, Little Dick Durbin, Reid, sKerry, LIEberman, Kennedy, Mulkowski, Klinton, Schmuckie Slimer, Barrrraaack O'Bama, etc. etc. etc.
There are, however, more than a handful of their accommodators across the aisle. Just as an example the girls from Maine.
Response: The corruption is palpable, aliens, perverts and various other vice addicts. The sewer is then paraded before our eyes and paid for by our labor. Then people wonder why the so called 'leadership' class holds the people in disdain! In America 2005 AD politicians belong in one of the three classes; Foul, Fouler and Foulest!
N. Korea is a necessary element of globalist strategy.
Without external boogie men on which to focus, the citizenry may rightly concentrate their animus on the ruling class.
The elite need someone to hide behind in order to effectively advance their schemes.
ping for later
For me, the bottom line is this: America's image as weak little bitches whom couldn't enforce their own stipulations of cease fire agreements from the first war is what needed to have a 'make-over'. This image did nothing to make us safer from extreme elements that came from that region - as I recall, the footage from the second commercial plane flying into the WTC shows that the 'pilot' of the that plane actually gunned the throttle as if to say "f*ck you, America!"
Mr. Hussein, in my opinion, needed to be dealt with because he was the unruly child that made the others feel a little too froggy. If the idea of this type of American paternalism bothers someone, than that is an entirely separate issue. The fact is that we set conditions out for that monster to abide by and his frequent middle finger back at us needed much swifter attention, WMDs or not.
kindred writes:
"the rino liberal republicrats (aka: moderates like McCain and so many others)"
Ferdie writes:
"There are, however, more than a handful of their accommodators across the aisle."
You are both correct ... and the cabal has a name -
"REPUBLICAN MAIN STREET PARTNERSHIP"
Click on the link, click on "About Us" then click on elected members. Also, check out the "Board Members" and "Supporters" for interesting reading.
http://republicanmainstreet.org/
When you are bored, go back to failed legislation, amendments that have passed/failed, the RinoRat 14 cabal the attacks on President Bush by his own party etc and match the names from the "elected members" page. Don't miss the 5 governors at the bottom.
I have not heard from this guy since he wrote about John Kasich's good buddy Gary Condit which was material that may be closer to his own element.
Thanks for the link. Puts alot of things in perspective.
FerdieMurphy,
You are missing the big picture.
Look back to WWII. Roosevelt declared war on Germany, a country that had not attacked the USA.
It is no different than our present WWIII. Saddam was allied with all terrorist elements against the USA. The USA targeted war on terrorists everywhere.
The USA should have targeted not only Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya but also Syria, Iran, North Korea and pockets of Pakistan. That may still happen.
The goal is to fight the war where the terrorists are most concentrated.
And remember Saddam's number one nuclear scientist had a centrifuge for uranium enrichment buried in his backyard with orders from Saddam to put it in operation on a moment's notice.
And remember the Pakistani nuclear scientist Khan who confessed to giving nuclear secrets to North Korea and AlQuaida. Remember how Libya confessed to having a nuclear weapons program and how North Korea confessed to the same after years of denying it.
This is dangerous business, very dangerous.
Saddam was a central ally to terror. He violated UN resolutions and was therefore responsible for the consequences.
Iraq was the best beachhead for surrounding and isolating terrorist states and regions. Iraq's population is the most secular of Arab peoples meaning their Mullahs and Imams have the least stranglehold over the people.
If democracy can be established anywhere in the Middle East it is in Iraq.
Read Harari for the best insight:
http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Haim%20Harari.htm
No we disagree with most of it.
"The so-called mainstream media (MSM) is an adjunct to this corrupt machine. Instead of asking questions in behalf of the American people, the MSM has become the propaganda arm of the politicians of both parties who lie constantly."
Your lie number one. The Lame Stream Media is a known, well understood, well documented media arm of the party of the Democrats, and is the media arm for political factions of liberals, leftists, socialists and communists. 90% of "Republicans" showcased by the Lame Stream Media are given their face-time because they oppose something that most other Republicans, or a Republican President do not. Republicans are only quoted in most of the print media if the use of the quote can be made to appear as a negative or if the Republican is a "moderate" RINO. If I need to send you to the numerous web sites that document these facts on a daily basis, then I cannot even fathom what you think you are doing on this forum.
"That column opined that, in order to start the war in Iraq, the Political Establishment in DC harnessed the anger and fear from a still-fresh-in-our-hearts 9/11 attack to ‘pivot’ and aim - not at Osama Bin Laden - but at Saddam Hussein (even though he and Iraq had nothing at all to do with the 9/11 attacks)."
That column and you are doing the "pivot", the distraction, from the historical case to your alternate reality. No one made the claim that Sadaam Hussein was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. The case was then, and remains valid today, that the 9/11 attacks brought to the front the reality of our dangerous world, a reality that had been ignored (they'll never attack us here), excused (it's Israel's fault, always), made lite of (we can just find them and arrest them), not studied too deeply (they're just terrorists) and allowed to fester by a misguided notion of the blessings (false blessings) of "stability" in the Middle East.
9/11 showed us that a world wide global war of terror was not just some Middle East rag tag bunch that could blow up a few foreign places and take over a failed-state banana republic like Somalia or Afghanistan; it could, if we continued to ignore the totality of it, bring major destructive acts to our homeland. And we realized that 40 years of ignorant, timid, slavish false belief in "stability" had been a major component in letting this virus build up.
We did not need evidence that Sadaam Hussein participated in the 9/11 attacks to know the danger he represented, understanding as we did after 9/11, just what the world, and particularly the Middle East actually looked like. Sitting smack dab in the middle of the neighborhood of the terrorists was:
(1)a brutal dictator who had twice in the last 30 years gone to war against his neighbors, on imperialist aims,
(2)who had developed and used WMDs, even against his own people,
(3)who had signed a truce (not a peace treaty) after his last attempt at conquest and over twelve years had failed to live up to many of the conditions of that truce,
(4)and because of those failures over so many years he continued to have his soverignty truncated, by international agreement and sanction,
(5)and against whom the UN had provided numerous resolutions demanding full, complete, unobstructed, tranparent, totally cooperative disclosure of the status of any and all WMD programs, activities and materials,
(6)and who, up to the last minute failed to provide that level of cooperation to the international community,
leaving the US, after 9/11, to take all that history and assume that with all of Sadaam's attempts at subterfuge and obstruction - convining the world he was hiding somethings about his WMD - we had to either (a)take him at his public word, or (b)assume (1)the US and foreign intelligence consensus could not be all wrong, and (2)he could not have been conducting all the obstruction for nothing.
So, we knew all of that and we knew:
Mr. Al Zarqarwi had left Afghanistan just before we invaded there and he landed safely in Iraq. He was allowed safe passage from Iran to Iraq and on to Jordan, and then back to Iraq (Falluja) and into northern Iraq, where he was allowed by Sadaam to start a terrorist cell against the Kurds. We had not yet hit Afghanistan and Al Zarqawi is running a new cell in northern Iraq and travelling freely from there to Baghdad, Fulluja, Jordan and back.
Sadaam was also, and had been, hosting a number of Al Queda related terrorists throughout the 1990s and up to 2003. One them, living freely in Baghdad was the lead chemist in the 1993 World Trade Center bombings.
And among some of the more obscure, but extremely perplexing facts were ones like this. When Sadaam invaded Kuwait, his minions, on their departure from Kuwait, ran off with warehouses full of Kuwaiti government files and documents. Some of them became tools of Sadaam's intelligence services. It turns out that a phony Kuwaiti who travelled to Malaysia, was helped into a job by an Iraqi national living there, and while in that job came to pick up one of the 9/11 plotters at the airport in Malaysia, escorted that plotter to a meeting in Malaysia, attended the meeting with him, took him back to the airport and shortly thereafter leaves his job, leaves Malaysia, returns to Kuwait and, essentially disappears. Because he was an Iraqi intelligence operative using a Kuwaiti identity stolen by the Iraqis during the first Gulf War. Does it put Sadaam's hand on the trigger? No. But it is one small indication of the "enemy of my friend is my enemy" atmosphere that post-9/11 warnings had to respect with a higher degree than ever allowed before.
So, first off asking us, after twelve years of failed diplomacy and after 9/11 to simply wait and pray that every bluster by Sadaam and every belief about Sadaam was wrong, posed national security risks that 9/11 simply made clear. Secondly, neither the US nor the UN were ever required to find WMDs as a condition of resolution 1441. The conditions and the actions required were all on Sadaam's side and the task was not difficult, if he wanted the UN, the sanctions and the US off his back. South Africa had done it and the Ukraine had done it and it really was not difficult and posed no problem for international inspectors and the international community - full, complete, unobstructed, tranparent, totally cooperative disclosure of the status of any and all WMD programs, activities and materials.
But that is not what Sadaam did. While the final inspection report went through many items that had been rectified it included just as many items they had been unable to rectify and 1/3 of the report detailed the constant, ongoing, active program by Sadaam to obstruct, obscure, divert, impede, cloud and hinder the inspection process. For someone claiming he had nothing to hide, he was doing the opposite of proving it.
Technically, the first Gulf War never ended. Sadaam had a truce but that truce was conditioned on his meeting its terms, which he never had. His failure to live up to the truce brought the years of additional sanctions and the military demarcation of the no-fly zones, still being enforced by the US and Britain at the time. Technically, under international law and by the nature and terms of all such truce agreements, the Kuwaitis and those who put Sadaam's invasion down could, at any time, invoke, militarily, their right to enforce the truce agreement that Sadaam had been abrogating for twelve years. That we went through France's diplomatic dog and pony show at the UN, says nothing about what we were able to do, but what we chose to do.
Leaving the status quo with Sadaam in place after 9/11, to the US, was not on option. All he needed to do was to adopt the open stance of South Africa and the Ukraine and give up any pretense about the true nature of his WMD capabilities. But Sadaam either got alot of the WMD materials out, in the months-long run-up to the war or he was counting on his blustering obstructions to keep us at bay.
But, from the multi-billion dollar food-for-bribes scandal and other means, Sadaam also believed he would never have to see either unfettered UN inspections or a US invasion. China, Russia and France were all dealing in dual-use sanctioned technology exports to Sadaam, in violation of numerous UN resolutions. China and Russia were owed billions and had billions in ongoing contracts. France was the largest importer to Iraq. With all the other international officials on the take in some way, Sadaam knew he had many allies that would oppose the US.
But his greatest ally was France's Chirac and the French oil conglomerate TotalFina. Chirac veiwed their relationship as one where he, Chirac, was mentor to Sadaam. Chirac had helped, clandestinely, obtain the means and material for Sadaam's earliest nuclear developments, including a nuclear reactor that Israel destroyed. But, in 2002/2003 terms, the big concern was oil and Iraq had it and Chirac and TotalFina wanted it. But, Sadaam's contracts with TotalFina, for the development rights, for two of the biggest parts of Iraq's oil reserves, required that those contracts would not be initiated, unless and until the UN sanctions were lifted. And who is one of the biggest international partners in Total? A Canadian conglomerate with a powerful political ally, a Canadian named Maurice Strong who is like a minister without portfolio to....................Kofi Annan.
So the leftists around the world can continue to spin the lies about how we were wrong to invade Iraq without "UN approval". We had all the approval we needed in Sadaam's failure to fulfill resoultion 1441 and in the 12 years of the failed truce. The war was justified on many levels and did not require any neocon conspiracy.
"So the Political Establishment - with the complicity of the so-called MSM - ran a concerted campaign using leaked intelligence to scare the bejesus out of the American people until almost everyone believed Saddam was just minutes away from attacking us with WMD and pilotless drones that could fly from Iraq to the United States mainland."
Intentional ignorance is not ignorance, it is an attempt to lie. The Lame Stream Media never helped support the war. In spite of leading Democrats voting for the use of force resolution - seeing the same intelligence that Bush saw - the LSM was never "behind" the war in Iraq, and even when they put a Democrat face up, it was in an attempt to make the Democrat look guilty for supporting the war. Any high school kid with a credit card and Lexis-Nexis account can demonstrate that fact.
When the government itself decides to make classified information public, that is not a "leak". You sound like a troll.
"It is a myth that we have found anything. And it is a myth that assuages many people’s guilt over supporting an invasion based on false claims."
Who made "false claims"? Are you saying that the CIA, the British intelligence, the French, the Italians, the Germans and others did not believe what they said they believed? Two independent British commissions and numerous Congressional investigations have asked the intelligence communities if the political leaders were presuring them to say something they did not believe or saying something other than what they believed. None of them have found any basis for your "false claims" conspiracy theory. If you want to descrive the CIA and others as failed agencies, go ahead, no argument hear. But the claim that they told Bush one thing and he said something different is false. But in your alternate reality universe Bush was supposed to believe the CIA was not only wrong but lying and that Sadaam was a grossly misunderstood saint. Well thank goodness for the fact that he took them at their word and acted accordingly. Now Sadaam's tyranny is gone and the Iraqi people are valiently going through their long-overdue right, and struggle to build their own democracy. Shame on you for dishonoring that achievement for them and for us. They are much better people than are you.
Troll away, to a cave somewhere, where you'll feel at home.
Yes, it certainly does. For instance, match the names on the "Elected Officials" page of REPUBLICAN MAIN STREET PARTNERSHIP, to the names below.
"Republicans Against ANWR ...
N.H. - Charles Bass (the ring leader),
Jeb Bradley N.Y.
Sherwood Boehlert,
Sue Kelly,
James Walsh N.J.
Mike Ferguson,
Rod Frelinghuysen,
Frank LoBiondo,
Jim Saxton Del.
Mike Castle Conn
Nancy Johnson,
Christopher Shays,
Robert Simmons Penn
Mike Fitzpartick,
Jim Gerlach Minn
Mark Kennedy,
Jim Ramstad Mich
Vernon Ehlers Mont
Wayne Gilchrest S.C.
Bob Inglis Ill.
Tim Johnson,
Mark Kirk Iowa
Jim Leach Wash
Dave Reichert Wisc
James Sensenbrenner
With the exception of 2 or 3 names, they match!
"Bush *is* the big mushy middle."
"The very people you call the hard working middle class"
Sounds good until you put it to the illegal immigration issue. Then it all falls into the "Load of Crap" zone.
Bush has never listened to the "hard working middle class".
If he did there would be a wall on the Mexican boarder by now.
Also their support for stem cell research is incredible.
The whole list of Rockefeller and globalist Republicans, all in one organization.
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