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Science to ride gravitational waves
BBC News on line ^ | November 8, 2006 | By Jonathan Amos, BBC News science reporter, Hanover

Posted on 11/09/2005 1:41:45 PM PST by aculeus

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To: GSlob
But wouldn't the passing gravitational wave change not only the spatial length but also everything in that space, light wavelength included?

The short answer is "no it wouldn't". Unfortunately, what it does do is change the time, and time is difficult to separate out from other measurements. For example, velocity = L/t, but people assume that if V changes then it must be the L that expands or contracts. I think it is the t that expands or contracts, but that is much more difficult to wrap your hands around.

41 posted on 11/09/2005 2:48:31 PM PST by lafroste (gravity is not a force. See my profile to read my novel absolutely free (I know, beyond shameless))
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To: Plexi
>i>It may turn out that gravity doesn't have a speed.

Imagine the possibilities for communication technology!

Or for instantaneous travel. Wormholes? No; just the manipulation of the instant gravitational properties of the universe.
42 posted on 11/09/2005 2:49:09 PM PST by adorno
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To: aculeus

OK, for an Art Bell moment (arrgh...!)

I had a dram the other night, that there are more dimensions to travelling waves, and that the fastest waves depend on a boundary layer, wether in 3-space or more space.

My dream said that creating a wave in water involved some kind of force, let's say a palm striking downward in a pool, from the air. The initial strike transfers an impact force to the water, travelling at the speed of sound in the water. The "smack" is a square wave type, and travels at the speed of sound by compression and reaction of the components of water.

The "follow through" is when the palm continues, generating a much, much slower wave at the boundary layer between the water and air.

I can't much remember the dream, other than it explains heat transfer, and that EM waves are similar to the second type of reaction, the "follow through." As in you have to move an electric or magnetic field a relatively long distance to create EM waves.

My dream said that if you even start to move an electric or magnetic field, it would be like the first instance, the "smack," square wave thing, that would propagate immensely faster. Just the start of such an incident would cause instantaneous reaction elsewhere, according to our current "speed of light" based measuring tools. There is a delay, just not measurable with our current tools.

As soon as you start to move whatever, the initial "smack" motion propagates at far beyond light speeds.

Then my dream said it explained quantum twin reactions, where "twin" particles knew where each was, and knew what each was doing, way beyond the speed of light.

Yeah, then I woke up.



43 posted on 11/09/2005 2:51:13 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: Quark2005
that these waves propagate at a limit of c is a consequence of general relativity.

However, c is L/t. What if t => 0 as V => c? That makes t a variable, and, if taken to its (logical?) conclusion, suggests that an absolute set of conditions exists at each dimensional level.

Call it the Theory of Absolutivity.

44 posted on 11/09/2005 2:52:31 PM PST by lafroste (gravity is not a force. See my profile to read my novel absolutely free (I know, beyond shameless))
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To: Blood of Tyrants

No, but it may interfere with who gets kicked off the island tonight.


45 posted on 11/09/2005 2:52:57 PM PST by printhead
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To: aculeus
Excellent stuff!

BUMP

46 posted on 11/09/2005 2:53:36 PM PST by zeugma (Warning: Self-referential object does not reference itself.)
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To: lafroste

I'd be curious to see your hypothesis, although I doubt I have the requisite expertise to point out errors. If I do happen to see any, I'll definitely be gracious! I'm mainly just curious though.


47 posted on 11/09/2005 2:57:37 PM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: keithtoo
"It will be interesting to see just how fast these waves propogate. It may be faster than the speed of light."

It was observed a long time ago that there is an "orbital delay" among planets in our system.

We know the distance between the planets and the sun, very well. Light travels fast, but it is around an 8 minute delay (as I recall) between when it leaves the sun, and when it hits the earth. If gravity travelled faster than light, or slower than light, our earth orbit would seem faster or slower than the light "string" (that we see) attaching us to the sun. But the lag in our orbit exactly matches the 8 minute lag that light takes to hit us. So gravity is exactly the same speed as light. It's like we are being pulled around the sun buy a bent rope pulled by you when you whip a whip around your head.

48 posted on 11/09/2005 3:03:43 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: RunningWolf

Can I get the subcontract for calibrating the flux capacitor?


49 posted on 11/09/2005 3:07:43 PM PST by steve8714
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To: AntiGuv
I wrote it in novel form. See my profile.

In a nutshell it states that gravity is caused by time fields interacting with an object's rest mass (requires a re-definition of "rest mass") so that the product of the time differential and the rest mass is equal to the apparent energy state change in normal space-time. For example, a body accelerates due to "gravity" in order to keep the fifth dimensional equality satisfied in a negative time field (time slows down as you approach a massive body).

I calculated that for a time differential of 1 second between two ideal clocks, one on the ground, one in an orbit of 175 miles, about 86 years needs to pass. The implications are quite interesting. For one, to build an "anti-gravity" machine, one needs to manipulate time. For another, the event horizon of a black hole is where the absolute value of time is 0. But now that we are defining absolutes, we've opened a whole new can of worms. Also, gravity would have to be demoted from a "fundamental force" to a mere happenstance, a lowly effect of a deeper cause. Lots of people don't like that.

50 posted on 11/09/2005 3:09:43 PM PST by lafroste (gravity is not a force. See my profile to read my novel absolutely free (I know, beyond shameless))
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To: aculeus

I thought Einstein came to the conclusion that gravity WASN'T a wave, but a curve in space. After all, if it's a wave, then at what velocity does the wave propagate?


51 posted on 11/09/2005 3:14:57 PM PST by IronJack
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To: lafroste

Thanks! I have a blinding migraine & need to lie down for a little while, but I'll ponder your ideas when I get back up.


52 posted on 11/09/2005 3:15:19 PM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: aculeus

for later


53 posted on 11/09/2005 3:39:06 PM PST by brooklin
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To: keithtoo

Nope. If they exist, they will travel at the speed of light. Thank Einstein for the universal speed limit.


54 posted on 11/09/2005 3:45:20 PM PST by xedude
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To: GSlob

The essence is that light does not interact gravitationally, because it has no mass (zero rest mass). One of the predictions of General Relativity was that the curvature of space-time can bend the path of light. That was proven (using our own Sun). This can also be interpreted if photons have a "relativistic mass", m = E/c^2, so that they "interact" gravitationally.

However, it's less confusing to interpret it as massless photons following the curvature of space-time.


55 posted on 11/09/2005 3:56:21 PM PST by xedude
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To: steve8714
Can you guarantee its information integrity through at least 3 string ball cycles? The cosmos may hinge upon it.

Wolf
56 posted on 11/09/2005 3:56:47 PM PST by RunningWolf (tag line limbo)
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To: lafroste

This doesn't make sense. If the velocity of an object changes, then either the distance it traverses, the time it takes to traverse that distance, or some combination of the two changes.


57 posted on 11/09/2005 4:00:01 PM PST by xedude
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To: lafroste

??

If distance is constant, and you take a limiting case t-->0, you have infinite velocity. At c, it will take some finite time to cross a finite distance.


58 posted on 11/09/2005 4:02:29 PM PST by xedude
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To: RunningWolf
I can do all this for a paltry sum of 10$ Billion, and will await the grant.

Sorry, you don't get the 10B grant unless you can work global warming into the proposal.

59 posted on 11/09/2005 4:03:33 PM PST by Ole Okie
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To: lafroste

This is purely a fictional invention, right?


60 posted on 11/09/2005 4:04:52 PM PST by xedude
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