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Science as Kansas sees it
Kansas City Star ^ | 11/6/05 | David Klepper

Posted on 11/06/2005 6:26:17 AM PST by Non-Sequitur

click here to read article


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To: js1138
Done in haste with no formatting.

Readable, nevertheless. Thank you.

101 posted on 11/06/2005 3:55:23 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: balrog666
There are a couple of un-pdfing programs out there.

I used OmniPage OCR reader.

102 posted on 11/06/2005 3:56:16 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Coyoteman; RadioAstronomer
This is how I picture the Grand Master.

He is never pictured. This is all the world has ever seen of him: The Grand Master, at a disciplinary session. It was when RadioAstronomer's petition to be relieved of janitorial duty was being considered.

103 posted on 11/06/2005 3:59:52 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: PatrickHenry

On a good scan of a printed document, OmniPage is nearly 100 percent accurate. Tell me if you spot any errors.

I would have done this earlier today, but My OCR reader is installed on what is now my wife's computer, and it was busy today.


104 posted on 11/06/2005 4:01:44 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
Tell me if you spot any errors.

I just glanced through it, having already read the pdf file. It looks okay to my hurried reading.

105 posted on 11/06/2005 4:04:41 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: PatrickHenry

Is he praying? I notice you don't show the cables linked to the 6502.


106 posted on 11/06/2005 4:08:24 PM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: furball4paws
This is the second time in a few weeks that you've put the lemon-scented cakes in the GM's private bathroom. You've been told he likes strawberry. One more mishap and you'll be on janitorial duty for another six months.
107 posted on 11/06/2005 4:11:54 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: furball4paws
Actually, it was just weena.

Yes. You should have been there in the Manville Movies when Yvette Mimieux first told Rod Taylor her name in George Pal's film version. The place erupted in pre-adolescent dirty laughter.

108 posted on 11/06/2005 4:15:18 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: PatrickHenry
I don't mention it much, but thanks much for maintaining the ping list. I appreciate it.

In this dover case, it's really too bad these bozos tried this stunt, because I think it will harm the traditional Christian culture that (although I don't have faith in the religion) I do think is a positive culture to operate a country on.

I've seen stories where entire school systems have ended all religious holidays, have banned green and red colors at the "winter break" parties, and other obvious anti-Christian rules. It's pretty sad.

But these Dover guys, because they so obviously, and so fraudulently tried to institute actual religious faith in science class, have handed ammunition to the folks who want to erase Christianity completely.

109 posted on 11/06/2005 4:34:04 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: PatrickHenry

I noticed that 50/50 is rendered 50I50.


110 posted on 11/06/2005 4:43:27 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Gumlegs; Non-Sequitur; RadioAstronomer; Coyoteman; CarolinaGuitarman
My, my. I must remember that if I am ever lonely, I must question the opinions of those who are sensitive to ID concepts.

I understand your frustrations, gentlemen, since I am sure all of you have repeatedly dealt with many who disagree with you and who will not be dissuaded of their positions. I do you an injustice, since my approach, fueled by coffee and a beautiful Fall morning, was not scholarly but jocular. When encountering those whose approach to evolution is purely materialistic, and I think many who are most vocal about the theory are indeed adamant materialists, one makes assumptions that may not be valid.

I assumed that you all are materialists. Forgive me.

When Darwin published Origin of the Species, his theory removed from many great minds a necessity for God in the cosmos, unleashing a cynical reassessment of metaphysics that resulted, I think, in the disasters of Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, contemporary liberalism, etc., etc. ad nauseum. While the USSR officially embraced Lysenko instead of Darwin, resulting in wheat crop failures and other human tragedies, the concept was the same: without a divine hand to guide the species, origins of life itself became philosophically divorced from God and were consolidated into the concept of evolution.

Like it or not, that is where the academy took the theory. Implicit to TOE is the "science" of denial of design. Teaching TOE as the only truth teaches implicitly, for many, secular materialism as the only truth (in the USSR, of course, Lysenkoism somehow more closely united the "scientific" principles of dialectical materialism with biology and genetics, which fascinates me and mystifies me). To say I do not understand the definition of "theory", so I therefore cannot critique TOE, or that I keep trying to link TOE to origins of life, which TOE indeed does not do, is to misunderstand my assertions. But that is my fault, due to time limits (note my late response to all your posts) and haste. I apologize for wasting your time.

What I believe ID proponents desire is to be able at least to express their disagreement with the implicit, exclusionary materialism of TOE. Without an ability to do so, TOE exclusivists, if I may coin a term of classification that I know will not fit adequately, become like Lysenko's political allies. To impose what Lysenko adamantly believed to be the only truth, they suppressed Darwinism. And they did more, with the aid of Stalin, persecuting, prosecuting, and in some instances, murdering, his Darwinist critics. I do not suggest anti-ID critics will do that, of course. But the insults and condescension most academics level at ID proponents suggest an unwillingness to allow freedom of speech in the academy, as if competing ideas are a bad thing. For example, I am not really an ID proponent, and I have collected my share of insults for the week. Oh well, humility is a fine virtue!

That's all. Good luck to you all in your efforts. Regards.

111 posted on 11/06/2005 4:44:23 PM PST by TheGeezer
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To: TheGeezer
When Darwin published Origin of the Species, his theory removed from many great minds a necessity for God in the cosmos, unleashing a cynical reassessment of metaphysics that resulted, I think, in the disasters of Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, contemporary liberalism, etc., etc. ad nauseum. While the USSR officially embraced Lysenko instead of Darwin, resulting in wheat crop failures and other human tragedies, the concept was the same: without a divine hand to guide the species, origins of life itself became philosophically divorced from God and were consolidated into the concept of evolution.

If you want to discard a scientific theory because someone might misapply it, you'd better discard all of science. You'd better discard all of religion, too, because that's been put to some pretty revolting uses.

Like it or not, that is where the academy took the theory. Implicit to TOE is the "science" of denial of design.

No more than any other sceintific theory denies design.

Teaching TOE as the only truth teaches implicitly, for many, secular materialism as the only truth (in the USSR, of course, Lysenkoism somehow more closely united the "scientific" principles of dialectical materialism with biology and genetics, which fascinates me and mystifies me).

The TOE is taught as science, not "the only truth." Trying to smuggle religion class into science class is what the argument is about.

To say I do not understand the definition of "theory", so I therefore cannot critique TOE, or that I keep trying to link TOE to origins of life, which TOE indeed does not do, is to misunderstand my assertions. But that is my fault, due to time limits (note my late response to all your posts) and haste. I apologize for wasting your time.

All we know of your opinions is what you post here.

What I believe ID proponents desire is to be able at least to express their disagreement with the implicit, exclusionary materialism of TOE. Without an ability to do so, TOE exclusivists, if I may coin a term of classification that I know will not fit adequately, become like Lysenko's political allies. To impose what Lysenko adamantly believed to be the only truth, they suppressed Darwinism. And they did more, with the aid of Stalin, persecuting, prosecuting, and in some instances, murdering, his Darwinist critics. I do not suggest anti-ID critics will do that, of course. But the insults and condescension most academics level at ID proponents suggest an unwillingness to allow freedom of speech in the academy, as if competing ideas are a bad thing. For example, I am not really an ID proponent, and I have collected my share of insults for the week. Oh well, humility is a fine virtue!

The fuss is about a group of people who want to inject the supernatural into science. If you think that will make for better or even good science, you don't understand science. Or maybe we're all wrong. Explain to us how ID is science ... without first demanding that science change its definition so that ID can be part of it.

That's all. Good luck to you all in your efforts. Regards.

Cheers.

112 posted on 11/06/2005 5:00:17 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: js1138
Thanks for psoting the transcript in it's entirety.

One of the things I want to quote was this:

...in its relation to Christianity, intelligent design should be viewed as a ground clearing operation that gets rid of the intellectual rubbish that for generations has kept Christianity from receiving serious consideration. William Dembski, "Intelligent Design's Contribution to the Debate Over Evolution, A Reply to Henry Morris." P-386. (Forrest, Oct. 5, PM, 50:17-22, 51:3-7).

I think it is very generous of Dembski to have admitted what the ID movement is really all about.... which is exactly what we've suspected all along.

113 posted on 11/06/2005 5:02:59 PM PST by longshadow
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To: narby
But these Dover guys, because they so obviously, and so fraudulently tried to institute actual religious faith in science class, have handed ammunition to the folks who want to erase Christianity completely.

These ignorant, self-appointed crusaders against science are doing more damage than they can possibly understand. But the real villains are those who push this poison, and who know exactly what they're doing.

114 posted on 11/06/2005 5:07:29 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: js1138
This hoard would have none of it...
that this board could conunandeer the religious education of their children...

Hazards of OCR software and blurry characters.

115 posted on 11/06/2005 5:13:22 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: js1138
Done in haste with no formatting.

Still a great job. You must type like well, you know.

116 posted on 11/06/2005 5:15:10 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: js1138
OmniPage is nearly 100 percent accurate. Tell me if you spot any errors.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

117 posted on 11/06/2005 5:15:21 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: All
Time magazine article: What Was God Thinking? Science Can't Tell. It's not groundbreaking material, but it shows that the MSM is certainly aware of the ID issue. At least the author doesn't mention that these dolts in Dover are conservatives.
118 posted on 11/06/2005 5:37:32 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: PatrickHenry
That's his bathroom? Great, I've got some new ones, Eau de la Pepe I'm going to try.

I've got to talk to him about hygiene.

119 posted on 11/06/2005 5:37:53 PM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: VadeRetro
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh, I wasn't following along. I almost suggested this but then again

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

120 posted on 11/06/2005 5:38:34 PM PST by LogicWings
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