Pastor electrocuted during baptism [Texas]

Sydney Morning Herald ^ | October 31, 2005 | AP

[CindyDawg]

Posting "condolences for the family, to me just means a sign of respect and that someone cares.

[WildTurkey]

Or vice versa, if the metal object was electrified from leakage.

Uh, I had Electricity 101 but I can't read your mind. Please explain.

[CindyDawg]

ping

[HiTech RedNeck]

I read somewhere, decades ago that the smallest voltage for which an accidental electrocution has been encountered, is somewhere around 24 volts. If the mike was fed with a 48 volt source having sufficient current capability, and maybe water dribbling off the man's hand trickled down to touch such an energized conductor, that could lead to a heart stopping zap.

[WildTurkey]

The only power going to a microphone should be +48V DC, referred to as phantom power. Would that kill someone?

It is very possible that the 120vac got onto the mike, but yes, 48vdc can kill under the right circumstances. OTOH, one can hold onto 120vac and not be hurt if one is careful.

[Between the Lines]

Perhaps foul play may not have been ruled out yet.

Foul play? More like demonic possession. Satan did not want this woman baptized!

[HiTech RedNeck]

There isn't any supernatural component to Maxwell's equations.

[Revolting cat!]

Inquiring minds want to know: What do these preachers wear during such ceremonies? Wet suits, swim trunks or the ever popular bikinis for men?

[Savage Beast]

I had a relative who dropped dead suddenly and unexpectedly, while feeling fine, in mid-sentence, talking on the phone (berry aneurysm). Now she knew how to check out.

[xjcsa]

I would even go so far as to bet that the electrical system in this church was designed with Ground Fault Interrupters (GFI) to handle this type of use.

As a live sound engineer, I thought I should try to clear a few things up. First of all, a microphone is typically wired directly to the input of a mixing console, via a snake (bundled microphone cables) or in-wall microphone cables. The microphone goes to the console, not to a wall outlet. The current that electrocuted the pastor was almost certainly 48-volt "phantom power". Phantom power is sent from the mixing console to power certain types of microphones (condensers). This is typically switchable on mixers - you can turn phantom power on or off. Most handheld vocal microphones are "dynamic" microphones and do not have any need for phantom power. But most low- and mid-cost mixers only allow switching of phantom power "globally" - meaning for all channels (microphones) at the same time, rather than the more expensive option of switching "per channel". So if -any- of the church's microphones require phantom power, it would have been turned on, and likely turned on to -all- microphones. Normally this is not a problem, as dynamic microphones simply ignore the phantom power. It can, however, be a danger in certain situations.

For example, if the sound system had a 60 hertz "ground loop" hum problem, one (unsafe) solution is to put "ground lift" devices on power cables at the wall outlet. These are the little grey plugs which take a three-prong (grounded) plug and turn it into a two-prong (ungrounded) plug. It sometimes fixes a hum problem, but it removes the chassis (safety) ground from the equipment to which it is attached. Combine a missing ground, 48V phantom power, and a pastor holding a microphone while standing in water, and you can end up with a problem.

[HiTech RedNeck]

So if -any- of the church's microphones require phantom power, it would have been turned on, and likely turned on to -all- microphones.

Or someone just randomly had the switch turned to that setting - if as you say it's harmless to mikes that don't need the power.

If the ground of the system actually wasn't connected to ground at all as you suggest possible, whence would the current loop be completed?

[HiTech RedNeck]

Mine wears ordinary washable pants.

[Revolting cat!]

'Course, if the preacher were female, you'd hope she was wearing a wet T-shirt.

[CindyDawg]

Well , a lot of them will probably be wearing waders now.

[Issaquahking]

48 volts dc is standard telephone voltage, 90 volts AC gets you a ring. Most muni's around the country require a licensed electrician for anything overy 50 volts. What does this mean? It is normally the point people start taking power into serious consideration. Still, lot's of people think they are experts at things they know nothing about.

Now this is where it gets scary, and you have to have to have gut instinct as to the proper selection of contractors to hire...where it's not about money but credibility. Most trained electrician's are competent and credible, unfortunately we have a few that make lawyer jokes look like jokes about saints.

My gut feeling tells me there is a lot more here going on than meets the eye, but to be fair, I'd have to be part of the investigating team. My bet is that either it was wired wrong from the "last improvement" or was never rigth in the first place. Second place I'd be considering is the grounding. Just some educated guesses without being there.

[xjcsa]

Or someone just randomly had the switch turned to that setting - if as you say it's harmless to mikes that don't need the power.

If the ground of the system actually wasn't connected to ground at all as you suggest possible, whence would the current loop be completed?

I'm no electrician, just a sound guy, but I'll give it a crack...

I -think- that if the mixer's ground is properly connected, that safety ground also protects the microphone. Like a power cord, a microphone cord contains three conductors, and they are hot, neutral, and ground. So normally the unused phantom power returns to the mixer via the ground wire, and this would be a shorter path to ground than through a person. If this path is removed, it's looking for a path to ground, and a person holding the microphone and standing in water, complete with metal drains and/or lights, heaters, etc., may become the shortest path to ground.

As for having phantom power on without needing it, that is entirely possible. If they run a "contemporary" service (full band), though, it is likely that they are using at least one or two condenser microphones that require phantom power.

[Hilltop]

This young pastor was performing a most sacred act, that which even Jesus did to please his father, baptism.

For you to invoke the trite Darwin nominee phrase is beyond the pale.

God will not be mocked. I, for your sake, hope that you will reflect upon your post.

[lawnguy]

Love your tagline! "To Serve Man" right?

Great catch. Have we ever done a Twilight Zone thread here? That guy was so far ahead of his time, it's incredible.

[TXnMA]

It is threads like this -- and comments like yours -- that make me really proud to be a FReeper...

...</SARCASM>...

To make sure my meaning is perfectly clear, highlight the above line (between the ... ...s)

[PAR35]

Some wear hip waders like duck hunters use.